Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Irons]

I find it incredible that someone who in his old age, who had reached the heights and as the saying goes got the T shirt, writes a symphony as current and modern as the 8th. Aligreto has the same reaction as we all do at the first hearing of the 8th "what is this!" with that dreamy opening featuring vibraphone and celesta.

It is Previn for me in the 8th.

[vers la flamme]

I find it incredible that someone who in his old age, who had reached the heights and as the saying goes got the T shirt, writes a symphony as current and modern as the 8th. Aligreto has the same reaction as we all do at the first hearing of the 8th "what is this!" with that dreamy opening featuring vibraphone and celesta.

It is Previn for me in the 8th.

You told me a few weeks ago to revisit the Previn RVW 8th after I mentioned in another thread that I didn't much care for his cycle (or the RVW symphonies other than the Pastoral in general), so I did, and it was very rewarding. I've been listening to it frequently since then. A really interesting symphony. Reminds me somewhat of the symphonies that would later be written by Malcolm Arnold.

[Irons]

You told me a few weeks ago to revisit the Previn RVW 8th after I mentioned in another thread that I didn't much care for his cycle (or the RVW symphonies other than the Pastoral in general), so I did, and it was very rewarding. I've been listening to it frequently since then. A really interesting symphony. Reminds me somewhat of the symphonies that would later be written by Malcolm Arnold.

Thanks for saying that. Appreciated.

[Karl Henning]

Why the vitriol for Strauss?  For sure the big tone poems dealing with life, the universe and everything can seem pretentious but what is wrong with aiming for the stars.... especially when you are young?  But to say he lacked talent is simply absurd

Tchaikovsky similarly derided Brahms as talentless. I love Tchaikovsky, but I don't care whom he didn't like.

Both the Previn and the Thomson cycle as a whole are by far the two best overall IMHO, and we only seem to differ in some detail. I appreciate the Thomson somewhat more than average here, e.g. his Eigth, whereas I do not really care so much for the 'London' apart for the two middle movements - and generally prefer the extended 1920 version over the later, shortened one. But all of these are merely details: Previn it is + Thomson. So far, everything Martyn Brabbins came forth with - the 1920 London, A Pastoral & the Fourth especially - may turn out to become the third, equally succesful cycle. (At the other end of the spectre, by far worst cycle of them all: the Bernard Haitink  ).

I've enjoyed spending quite a bit of time with the Thomson cycle this week. Should cue up his Sea Symphony, which is the one item in the Thomson set which I've neglected so far.

[Roasted Swan]

I enjoyed Paul Daniels' No.4 from the Naxos/Bournemouth cycle today.  A really excellent version all too easy to overlook in the midst of Brabbins/Manze/Previn/Boult/Handley etc etc.  Probably an uneven cycle but this is one of the finest parts of it and an interesting programme too with an evocative Norfolk Rhapsody and a suitably rhapsodic Flos Campi

[Karl Henning]

I enjoyed Paul Daniels' No.4 from the Naxos/Bournemouth cycle today.  A really excellent version all too easy to overlook in the midst of Brabbins/Manze/Previn/Boult/Handley etc etc.  Probably an uneven cycle but this is one of the finest parts of it and an interesting programme too with an evocative Norfolk Rhapsody and a suitably rhapsodic Flos Campi

Yes, a very nice disc!

[vandermolen]

I enjoyed Paul Daniels' No.4 from the Naxos/Bournemouth cycle today.  A really excellent version all too easy to overlook in the midst of Brabbins/Manze/Previn/Boult/Handley etc etc.  Probably an uneven cycle but this is one of the finest parts of it and an interesting programme too with an evocative Norfolk Rhapsody and a suitably rhapsodic Flos Campi

Good point. I enjoy that disc as well, although like the Vernon Handley cycle, none of the others really stood out for me.  I liked the coupling of 5 and 9.

[aligreto]

I find it incredible that someone who in his old age, who had reached the heights and as the saying goes got the T shirt, writes a symphony as current and modern as the 8th. Aligreto has the same reaction as we all do at the first hearing of the 8th "what is this!" with that dreamy opening featuring vibraphone and celesta.

You told me a few weeks ago to revisit the Previn RVW 8th after I mentioned in another thread that I didn't much care for his cycle (or the RVW symphonies other than the Pastoral in general), so I did, and it was very rewarding. I've been listening to it frequently since then. A really interesting symphony. Reminds me somewhat of the symphonies that would later be written by Malcolm Arnold.

One thing that I have definitely learned over the years of listening to music is that if at first you do not like or understand it [which is fine] that given time and a few re-listening sessions this initial barrier frequently disappears. And so it has been for me with Vaughan Williams Symphonies Nos. 1 & 8. Sometimes it pays dividends to be persistent.

[Christo]

Good point. I enjoy that disc as well, although like the Vernon Handley cycle, none of the others really stood out for me.  I liked the coupling of 5 and 9.

https://www.shazam.com/nl/track/47082411/williams-symphony-no-7-sinfonia-antartica-iv-intermezzo-andante-sostenuto-allegretto-pesante-tempo-primo-tranquillo

[aligreto]

Cross post from the Listening Thread:


Vaughan-Williams: Symphony No. 4 [Vaughan-Williams]






This CD has been in my collection for a long time. I did not include it in my original review of the RVW Symphony No. 4 because I had mislabelled it as Symphony No. 8 in my filing system. 

Not all composers are successful in conducting, particularly their own music but Vaughan-Williams, for me, portrays his own powerful and harsh sound world very well. He elicits a taut and tension fill performance from the BBCSO. I found the interpretation of the Andante to be very engaging.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Cross post from the Listening Thread:


Vaughan-Williams: Symphony No. 4 [Vaughan-Williams]






This CD has been in my collection for a long time. I did not include it in my original review of the RVW Symphony No. 4 because I had mislabelled it as Symphony No. 8 in my filing system. 

Not all composers are successful in conducting, particularly their own music but Vaughan-Williams, for me, portrays his own powerful and harsh sound world very well. He elicits a taut and tension fill performance from the BBCSO. I found the interpretation of the Andante to be very engaging.

Glad that you managed to find it.    

Would like to hear the Holst recording.  I do/did enjoy the VW one...hope to revisit it soon (Dutton CD--see current listening thread if you missed my posting).

Wondering whether or not anyone here has heard Vaughan Williams conducting Bach's St. Matthew's Passion (issued by Pearl); I dithered as to whether or not to order the CD and then it was no more.     I remember reading that he loved to conduct it and did so, I believe, regularly at the Leith Hill Music Festival.

Oh, I did find it online here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUTyxi9YOLw

Apologies if this has already been brought up before, but I feel like I don't have time to read through all of the pages on this thread.

Best,

PD

[Daverz]

One thing that I have definitely learned over the years of listening to music is that if at first you do not like or understand it [which is fine] that given time and a few re-listening sessions this initial barrier frequently disappears. And so it has been for me with Vaughan Williams Symphonies Nos. 1 & 8. Sometimes it pays dividends to be persistent.

I admit that I tend to avoid English choral works, so I haven't even made a proper attempt on the Sea Symphony.  I'm also allergic to Walt Whitman, so that doesn't help.  But No. 8 has always seemed a colorful and enjoyable work. 

I will admit that it's actually the London Symphony -- of all the symphonies, you'd think the easiest to assimilate -- that still tends to flummox me.

[vandermolen]

I admit that I tend to avoid English choral works, so I haven't even made a proper attempt on the Sea Symphony.  I'm also allergic to Walt Whitman, so that doesn't help.  But No. 8 has always seemed a colorful and enjoyable work. 

I will admit that it's actually the London Symphony -- of all the symphonies, you'd think the easiest to assimilate -- that still tends to flummox me.

I wonder if you've heard the 1913 or 1920 version, both of which include the most beautiful section of music, near the end, which VW, mistakenly in my view, later excised from the symphony.

[Maestro267]

It's kinda mindblowing how some of the "extra" sections in the 1913 version of A London Symphony sound so much like what Bax would go on to do in his symphonies some 20-odd years later. It's magnificent!

[aligreto]

I will admit that it's actually the London Symphony -- of all the symphonies, you'd think the easiest to assimilate -- that still tends to flummox me.

Yes, that is an odd one to be stumped on all right.

[vandermolen]

It's kinda mindblowing how some of the "extra" sections in the 1913 version of A London Symphony sound so much like what Bax would go on to do in his symphonies some 20-odd years later. It's magnificent!

I agree and it was Bax, amongst others (Boult, Bernard Herrmann) who remonstrated with Vaughan Williams over the cuts that he made in 1936. I recall a critic commenting that VW had cut out a typically 'Baxian moment of cacophony' or words to that effect.

[vandermolen]

Review of the new Brabbins CD of symphonies 3 and 4:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Mar/VW_sys_CDA68280.htm

[Christo]

Review of the new Brabbins CD of symphonies 3 and 4:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Mar/VW_sys_CDA68280.htm

I saw there are already three reviews there, by Nick Barnard, John Quinn and Paul Corfield Godfrey respectively, all three largely consistent with my own preliminary findings, except that I dare to confess that I find them really outstanding, even compared with Previn's. For me, there are these three or four convincing cycles now: Boult I, Previn, Thomson and Brabbins. 

[Roasted Swan]

I saw there are already three reviews there, by Nick Barnard, John Quinn and Paul Corfield Godfrey respectively, all three largely consistent with my own preliminary findings, except that I dare to confess that I find them really outstanding, even compared with Previn's. For me, there are these three or four convincing cycles now: Boult I, Previn, Thomson and Brabbins. 

Christo I agree with you - certainly the 3 older/complete cycles jostle with each other in terms of quality.  I am not so enamored of Brabbins' latest offering - its very good - especially No.3.  One comment in the most recent Music Web review puzzled me; "Previn's RCA version too displays a sense of caution in the remarkably slow pace he adopts for the first movement" [of Symphony 4].  Of course timings of a complete movement alone are a fallible guide showing no sense of ebb and flow.  But by timings alone Previn is only 18 seconds slower (8:45 compared to 8:27) which hardly equates to being "remarkably slow" in my dictionary of definitions!  Even if it were I think there is a valid interpretative argument for a grinding tectonic brutality that a slower pace can allow. 

What the new review does highlight - and I completely agree with - is how "easy" modern orchestras can make this work sound.  Which does make me ponder all over again whether effort and a "victory hard won" can add to the sense of a performance.  Wasn't it Richard Strauss who once complained that an orchestra he went to guest conduct were too well prepared and that he wanted his music to sound hard!! (this is all from memory so I might be completely wrong)

[vandermolen]

I saw there are already three reviews there, by Nick Barnard, John Quinn and Paul Corfield Godfrey respectively, all three largely consistent with my own preliminary findings, except that I dare to confess that I find them really outstanding, even compared with Previn's. For me, there are these three or four convincing cycles now: Boult I, Previn, Thomson and Brabbins. 

Very much agree with your choices notwithstanding some other excellent individual recordings, including:

Stokowski: Symphony 9
Abravanel: Symphony 6
Berglund: symphonies 4 and 6
Mitropolous: Symphony 4
Haitink: A Sea Symphony
Hickox: A London Symphony (1913)
Barbirolli: Symphony 2 and 5 (EMI)