Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Biffo]

I'm willing to sacrifice spectral eeriness to actually hear the music, for once!

I second that, it tends to be studio recordings that are absurdly quiet, sometimes to the point of inaudibility. Live performances are more likely to be at a natural level and far more detail can be heard.

[Irons]

The May BBC Music Magazine is a VW 150th Birthday special. I've been enjoying the cover CD today featuring the ubiquitous John Wilson conducting symphonies 4 and 6 as well as In the Fen Country (BBC Philharmonic Orchestra). I didn't think that the performance of the 4th Symphony was anything special (I much prefer Berglund's recording) but the stand-out item for me was the 6th Symphony, which was given a fine performance although the last movement seemed too loud for me and therefore a bit lacking in spectral eeriness. The pacing was good, however - well worth having:

I enjoyed the CD very much playing the whole thing (how could you not!). My heart sunk a bit as in my view the 4th & 6th do not make a good coupling but no worries as placing "In the Fen Country" between them a smart move. I actually preferred the performance of the 4th, not the last word in dynamic explosiveness as indeed is not the 6th, but I was able to appreciate other virtues which have passed me by in a symphony that with the exception of the 1st I have spent the least time with. After hearing this recording, the 4th is a greater symphony then I gave it credit for.
Not quite so convinced by the 6th with my mind wandering to Boult, Previn and Berglund but they are very special and the sound world John Wilson produces is unarguably that of RVW.   

[vandermolen]

I enjoyed the CD very much playing the whole thing (how could you not!). My heart sunk a bit as in my view the 4th & 6th do not make a good coupling but no worries as placing "In the Fen Country" between them a smart move. I actually preferred the performance of the 4th, not the last word in dynamic explosiveness as indeed is not the 6th, but I was able to appreciate other virtues which have passed me by in a symphony that with the exception of the 1st I have spent the least time with. After hearing this recording, the 4th is a greater symphony then I gave it credit for.
Not quite so convinced by the 6th with my mind wandering to Boult, Previn and Berglund but they are very special and the sound world John Wilson produces is unarguably that of RVW.

I will listen to No.4 again Lol. While recognising its greatness it has lost some of its appeal to me compared with No.6, which I prefer. I think that placing 'In the Fen Country' between the two turbulent symphonies was a clever move and I think that it's a fine performance.
I think that my rank order of VW symphonies would now be:
No 6
No 9
No 2
No 1
No 8
No 7
No 5
No 4
No 3

[Spotted Horses]

I will listen to No.4 again Lol. While recognising its greatness it has lost some of its appeal to me compared with No.6, which I prefer. I think that placing 'In the Fen Country' between the two turbulent symphonies was a clever move and I think that it's a fine performance.
I think that my rank order of VW symphonies would now be:
No 6
No 9
No 2
No 1
No 8
No 7
No 5
No 4
No 3

No 3 is last?!?! 

This is my ranking:

seven way tie for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9
7
1

[vandermolen]

No 3 is last?!?! 

This is my ranking:

seven way tie for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9
7
1

Interesting! I didn't like No. 1 'A Sea Symphony' for decades and decades until I heard Haitink's studio recording which was a 'Damascus' moment for me. Michael Kennedy reckoned that No.3 'A Pastoral symphony' was the greatest of all (but Kennedy also argued that there was no 'conscious leave-taking' in No.9 - which I totally disagree with). I was put off No.3 by hearing a terrible live performance of it by Norman Del Mar (since then I've always thought, sacrilegious though this might seem, that it works better on record than in live concert - maybe something to do with the more intimate nature of the work).

[vandermolen]

I just listened to a fascinating piece of archive material which was broadcast during the interval of the concert in Manchester last night (21/04). It features Vaughan Williams, in his characteristic upper class accent talking about Gustav Holst and (after Holst's 'Moorside Suite') the composer Herbert Howells talking about Holst. At one time Holst, VW and Howells taught at St Paul's Girl's School in Hammersmith, London. Towards the end of his life Holst turned up unexpectedly one Saturday night, at Howells's front door seemingly very ill. Howells invited Holst to join him and his wife for supper but Holst refused and said that he'd go up to Howells's study to look at manuscripts. By chance there was a Prom being broadcast that night featuring 'The Planets'. Howells invited Holst to come downstairs to listen to the broadcast of 'The Planets' but Holst said that he did not want to hear it! However he eventually came down to listen and when the audience spontaneously started singing the big tune in the middle of 'Jupiter' ('I Vow to thee My Country') Howells noticed that tears were streaming down Holst's face. At the end Holst left them saying that he didn't suppose that they would see him much more and he died shortly afterwards. The extract is after the broadcast of Vaughan Williams's Symphony No. 9, about 37 minutes into the broadcast and the Howells reminiscences are played after Holst's 'Moorside Suite':
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00169jf

[foxandpeng]

I just listened to a fascinating piece of archive material which was broadcast during the interval of the concert in Manchester last night (21/04). It features Vaughan Williams, in his characteristic upper class accent talking about Gustav Holst and (after Holst's 'Moorside Suite') the composer Herbert Howells talking about Holst. At one time Holst, VW and Howells taught at St Paul's Girl's School in Hammersmith, London. Towards the end of his life Holst turned up unexpectedly one Saturday night, at Howells's front door seemingly very ill. Howells invited Holst to join him and his wife for supper but Holst refused and said that he'd go up to Howells's study to look at manuscripts. By chance there was a Prom being broadcast that night featuring 'The Planets'. Howells invited Holst to come downstairs to listen to the broadcast of 'The Planets' but Holst said that he did not want to hear it! However he eventually came down to listen and when the audience spontaneously started singing the big tune in the middle of 'Jupiter' ('I Vow to thee My Country') Howells noticed that tears were streaming down Holst's face. At the end Holst left them saying that he didn't suppose that they would see him much more and he died shortly afterwards. The extract is after the broadcast of Vaughan Williams's Symphony No. 9, about 37 minutes into the broadcast and the Howells reminiscences are played after Holst's 'Moorside Suite':
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00169jf

This is a great anecdote. I will be replaying this in the next day or so myself. It was such a shame to have missed it in person, but looking forward to catching it up.

PS... 3 is last? I will need to ponder my own ordering...

[DavidW]

What Vandermolen doesn't care for 3 or 4!?!

4 and 6 are my top tier, and I consider all the others tied (yes even the Sea Symphony!! I love it!  and yes even the 7th it is so atmospheric)

[vandermolen]

What Vandermolen doesn't care for 3 or 4!?!

4 and 6 are my top tier, and I consider all the others tied (yes even the Sea Symphony!! I love it!  and yes even the 7th it is so atmospheric)

No No - I love all the VW symphonies David - it's just that I (currently) prefer some to others.

[Spotted Horses]

Interesting! I didn't like No. 1 'A Sea Symphony' for decades and decades until I heard Haitink's studio recording which was a 'Damascus' moment for me. Michael Kennedy reckoned that No.3 'A Pastoral symphony' was the greatest of all (but Kennedy also argued that there was no 'conscious leave-taking' in No.9 - which I totally disagree with). I was put off No.3 by hearing a terrible live performance of it by Norman Del Mar (since then I've always thought, sacrilegious though this might seem, that it works better on record than in live concert - maybe something to do with the more intimate nature of the work).

I must confess, I have never heard a single note of A Sea Symphony. I do not enjoy chorus and orchestra music past Bach (or maybe Mozart and some small scale neoclassical works) and particularly find a Baritone (or Bass) operatic voice unpleasant. The seventh symphony is demoted due to the use of a wind machine. I formerly considered the third symphony to be a weak link, until hearing Andre Previn's luminous recording (on RCA).

[Mirror Image]

What Vandermolen doesn't care for 3 or 4!?!

4 and 6 are my top tier, and I consider all the others tied (yes even the Sea Symphony!! I love it!  and yes even the 7th it is so atmospheric)

I personally don't love them all or, at least, love them equally. The 4th still gives me a bit of a problem as I much prefer the menacing 6th. A Sea Symphony is a fine work, but I seldom find myself wanting to actually listen to it. I LOVE A Pastoral Symphony and Symphony No. 8. Sinfonia Antartica isn't too shabby. A London Symphony is quite fine, but I like the 1920 version the best I think. Symphony No. 9 doesn't strike me as being too interesting, although it has been some time since I've heard it. Symphony No. 5 is my favorite symphony from RVW. It's absolute magic from beginning to end. It takes me places. Such a spiritual and uplifting work, but it has plenty of atmosphere and there are moments where there's teeth being shown like in the more hectic, in-your-face moments in the first and second movements.

[vandermolen]

I must confess, I have never heard a single note of A Sea Symphony. I do not enjoy chorus and orchestra music past Bach (or maybe Mozart and some small scale neoclassical works) and particularly find a Baritone (or Bass) operatic voice unpleasant. The seventh symphony is demoted due to the use of a wind machine. I formerly considered the third symphony to be a weak link, until hearing Andre Previn's luminous recording (on RCA).

Previn's No.3 is the best IMO (as is his No.Eight) and 2 and 5 are very strong performances. 'Luminous' is a good description of Previn's recording of No.3 - I must listen to it again soon.

[Mirror Image]

Previn's No.3 is the best IMO (as is his No. and 2 and 5 are very strong performances. 'Luminous' is a good description of Previn's recording of No.3 - I must listen to it again soon.

YES! Previn's Pastoral is my favorite and his 5th is also my favorite. Damn, now I want to listen to both of these performances! I agree with you on his performances of the 8th, but 2nd and 7th as well. He's less successful in the 4th and 6th. I don't recall his 1st at the moment. I'll have to give this one another listen as it's been far too long. I also liked his 9th, but will freely admit its one of my least favorite symphonies from this cycle.

[vandermolen]

I personally don't love them all or, at least, love them equally. The 4th still gives me a bit of a problem as I much prefer the menacing 6th. A Sea Symphony is a fine work, but I seldom find myself wanting to actually listen to it. I LOVE A Pastoral Symphony and Symphony No. 8. Sinfonia Antartica isn't too shabby. A London Symphony is quite fine, but I like the 1920 version the best I think. Symphony No. 9 doesn't strike me as being too interesting, although it has been some time since I've heard it. Symphony No. 5 is my favorite symphony from RVW. It's absolute magic from beginning to end. It takes me places. Such a spiritual and uplifting work, but it has plenty of atmosphere and there are moments where there's teeth being shown like in the more hectic, in-your-face moments in the first and second movements.

Definitely with you over the 1920 version of a London Symphony John. VW should have stopped revising it after that! I'm looking forward to the new ICA CD release featuring symphonies 5 and 6 (Boult, BBC SO).

[Mirror Image]

Definitely with you over the 1920 version of a London Symphony John. VW should have stopped revising it after that! I'm looking forward to the new ICA CD release featuring symphonies 5 and 6 (Boult, BBC SO).

Ah yes, I'll be picking this one up as well since I think so highly of both of these symphonies and Boult's way with RVW in general.

[calyptorhynchus]

Hmm,

My order is: 5, 3, 9, 2, 6, 8, 4, 7, 1

Reminds me of the Havergal Brian thread c.2012 when everyone was quoting their order (a few more permutations though!).

[foxandpeng]

I can't remember my most recent order, but without relistening, it is probably.. 

2, 3, 5, 6, 4, 8, 7, 9... and the other one with the singing. I would replace this with Job, if I were in charge.

[DavidW]

I haven't listened to Previn's recordings in a long while, I should change that.  I kind of just stuck with Boult.

[relm1]

YES! Previn's Pastoral is my favorite and his 5th is also my favorite. Damn, now I want to listen to both of these performances! I agree with you on his performances of the 8th, but 2nd and 7th as well. He's less successful in the 4th and 6th. I don't recall his 1st at the moment. I'll have to give this one another listen as it's been far too long. I also liked his 9th, but will freely admit its one of my least favorite symphonies from this cycle.

Previn's No. 9 is also your favorite....or should be.  He really lets the tension build so organically and their is a real sense of inner turmoil and transcendence, for me at least.  I also like Boult's No. 9 and Hickox's. 

[Mirror Image]

Previn's No. 9 is also your favorite....or should be.  He really lets the tension build so organically and their is a real sense of inner turmoil and transcendence, for me at least.  I also like Boult's No. 9 and Hickox's.

I think my general problem is with the work itself, but I'll go back and give the Previn a listen. I don't like Hickox's RVW on Chandos much. I do like his earlier EMI recordings. His Job is still a long-standing favorite of mine.