Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Roasted Swan]

No need to panic. His birthday isn't until October, but the celebration will be all year long as it should be. It will actually give me an excuse to listen to some works of his that I don't know well at all like the operas The Poisoned Kiss and Sir John in Love for example. RVW's operatic output doesn't get discussed a lot aside from perhaps The Pilgrims' Progress and maybe Riders to the Sea (an absolute masterpiece, IMHO).

re the operas - yes absolutely Riders to the Sea is 100% genius and Pilgrim's Progress deeply sincere with much fantastic music but whether its totally viable as a piece of staged theatre I'm not so sure (but I didn't see the highly praised versions at the RNCM etc).  Hugh the Drover doesn't really do it for me - just all a bit too twee English Rural Idyll - Edward German but done better.  The Poisoned Kiss I have the discs but frankly don't know at all well... perhaps I should relisten.  Sir John in Love I find good in parts but again not that compelling.....  And this from someone for whom opera is possibly the ultimate musical form when done at its best....

[Mirror Image]

re the operas - yes absolutely Riders to the Sea is 100% genius and Pilgrim's Progress deeply sincere with much fantastic music but whether its totally viable as a piece of staged theatre I'm not so sure (but I didn't see the highly praised versions at the RNCM etc).  Hugh the Drover doesn't really do it for me - just all a bit too twee English Rural Idyll - Edward German but done better.  The Poisoned Kiss I have the discs but frankly don't know at all well... perhaps I should relisten.  Sir John in Love I find good in parts but again not that compelling.....  And this from someone for whom opera is possibly the ultimate musical form when done at its best....

Interesting. It looks like you and I are in agreement about the operas. I recall not really enjoying Hugh the Drover too much and Sir John in Love was 'okay', but just not too memorable. It looks like I'll stick with The Pilgrim's Progess and Riders to the Sea if I want to hear RVW at his operatic best. Like you, I need to revisit The Poisoned Kiss, but it wouldn't hurt for me to go back and listen to Sir John in Love as it's been too long for me.

Here's perhaps a rather difficult question for you and others, what are your 'Top 5' favorite RVW recordings?

[Roasted Swan]

Interesting. It looks like you and I are in agreement about the operas. I recall not really enjoying Hugh the Drover too much and Sir John in Love was 'okay', but just not too memorable. It looks like I'll stick with The Pilgrim's Progess and Riders to the Sea if I want to hear RVW at his operatic best. Like you, I need to revisit The Poisoned Kiss, but it wouldn't hurt for me to go back and listen to Sir John in Love as it's been too long for me.

Here's perhaps a rather difficult question for you and others, what are your 'Top 5' favorite RVW recordings?

Ask me again tomorrow and you'll get a different list(!) but for now - not in any order;

Phantasy Quintet - Music Group of London
On Wenlock Edge - Ian Partridge
Tallis Fantasia (Davis - BBC SO - BBC Music Mag cover disc recorded in Gloucester Cathedral)
Symphony No.5 (Previn/LSO)
Mass in G minor (Matthew Best /Corydon Singers - probably not the "best" version - pardon the pun - but the version that opened the gates of wonder for me)

[Spotted Horses]

I seriously doubt this newly remastered Boult set will be available any other way. I've never seen these Tower Records/Warner Japan releases available for download. I'm glad I bought the set and it wasn't "obscenely overpriced" since 1. the recordings receive a completely new remastering, which isn't something that can be done successfully by anyone, especially since not everyone will have access to the original analog tapes like Kousuke Fujino did and 2. the materials that are made for these box sets are amazingly durable --- if you don't own one of these Tower Records/Warner SACD sets, then you clearly don't know their worth. I believe the set to be worth what I paid for it (it's actually going for a higher price from Japanese sellers on eBay for example), but it's not about the money as much as it is about the quality of the remaster and from what I've heard from this source, I have been hugely satisfied.

If it is true that they will not distribute the remastered content any other way, it is a shame. Why take those fragile tapes out of storage at Abbey Road and run them to distribute the result so narrowly? They could make so much more money with a wider release. When DG released Karajan's Bruckner cycle on SACD to much fanfare the hi-rez digital downloads appeared at Presto Classical (and I assume other distributers). People who care about packaging could get them, and people like me that only care about the audio could get them cheap.

In any case, it would be worth it to me to pay a modest amount to get a better master with a smoother sound (1987 ADCs had limitations), but we are talking about 1967 recordings and I it's not worth it to me to hear tape hiss and analog saturation in ultra-high resolution.

[Mirror Image]

If it is true that they will not distribute the remastered content any other way, it is a shame. Why take those fragile tapes out of storage at Abbey Road and run them to distribute the result so narrowly? They could make so much more money with a wider release. When DG released Karajan's Bruckner cycle on SACD to much fanfare the hi-rez digital downloads appeared at Presto Classical (and I assume other distributers). People who care about packaging could get them, and people like me that only care about the audio could get them cheap.

In any case, it would be worth it to me to pay a modest amount to get a better master with a smoother sound (1987 ADCs had limitations), but we are talking about 1967 recordings and I it's not worth it to me to hear tape hiss and analog saturation in ultra-high resolution.

This is where we definitely diverge in our viewpoints. For me, music is about much more than simply listening. It's a whole experience. If a box set looks attractive and is well-done with it's presentation, then I'm already halfway interested, but if the fidelity of the recordings are also of desirable quality than I'll probably buy it if I want it. If it is value added to my collection and brings me happiness in more ways than one, then I consider it a win/win. I guess I just value the physical product more than you do and lately I've been listening on my stereo and let me tell you, I've been enriched by the experience. Anyway, I'm grateful for my free time and I realize that none of these material things will go with me after I'm gone, but this doesn't mean I have to look at a sound file and accept it as being a part of my own experience with music. Fuck that. I've got my own streaming service on my computer that came from my own collection if I want to play something at my desk with headphones on or through my desktop soundbar.

I brought this RVW Boult set to people's attention, because I knew some members here would be interested and, as you read, some members are considering the set. That's enough for me.

[Mirror Image]

Ask me again tomorrow and you'll get a different list(!) but for now - not in any order;

Phantasy Quintet - Music Group of London
On Wenlock Edge - Ian Partridge
Tallis Fantasia (Davis - BBC SO - BBC Music Mag cover disc recorded in Gloucester Cathedral)
Symphony No.5 (Previn/LSO)
Mass in G minor (Matthew Best /Corydon Singers - probably not the "best" version - pardon the pun - but the version that opened the gates of wonder for me)

Nice list! I don't think I've heard nor own Partridge in On Wenlock Edge, so I may have to go look for this recording. That Previn recording of the 5th will definitely make it to my own list when I get around to assembling it.

[Mirror Image]

Here's an attempt at an RVW favorite recordings list --- (in no particular order):

[LKB]

Nice list! I don't think I've heard nor own Partridge in On Wenlock Edge, so I may have to go look for this recording. That Previn recording of the 5th will definitely make it to my own list when I get around to assembling it.

MI, you should most certainly obtain Partridge et. al. performing On Wenlock Edge. It has some exquisite singing, as well as wonderfully evocative playing on offer. As far as sound quality, the LP was impressive and the first CD release was more than acceptable ( I've not heard any subsequent CD releases ).

[Mirror Image]

MI, you should most certainly obtain Partridge et. al. performing On Wenlock Edge. It has some exquisite singing, as well as wonderfully evocative playing on offer. As far as sound quality, the LP was impressive and the first CD release was more than acceptable ( I've not heard any subsequent CD releases ).

Well, that makes two endorsements for this recording. I'm sold!

[LKB]

Well, that makes two endorsements for this recording. I'm sold!

You won't regret it, I promise. 

[Mirror Image]

You won't regret it, I promise. 

I love On Wenlock Edge and I'm sure I've heard Ian Partridge's voice before. I'm sure I won't have any objections.

[Spotted Horses]

This is where we definitely diverge in our viewpoints. For me, music is about much more than simply listening. It's a whole experience. If a box set looks attractive and is well-done with it's presentation, then I'm already halfway interested, but if the fidelity of the recordings are also of desirable quality than I'll probably buy it if I want it. If it is value added to my collection and brings me happiness in more ways than one, then I consider it a win/win. I guess I just value the physical product more than you do and lately I've been listening on my stereo and let me tell you, I've been enriched by the experience. Anyway, I'm grateful for my free time and I realize that none of these material things will go with me after I'm gone, but this doesn't mean I have to look at a sound file and accept it as being a part of my own experience with music. Fuck that. I've got my own streaming service on my computer that came from my own collection if I want to play something at my desk with headphones on or through my desktop soundbar.

Certainly you can buy physical media if you are attracted to packaging. But I don't know why you associate "physical product" with playing though your stereo and files on your computer playing through a desktop sound bar. If I insert a disc into my Marantz SACD player, or stream a FLAC file I ripped from the same disc to the same SACD player (which can function as a DAC) or stream a FLAC file obtained directly from the record label to the SACD player it is the same audio data being reproduced and the exact same experience, whether I am using my amp and speakers, or my dedicated headphone amp and my Beyerdynamic headphones. For me only the music matters and downloads offer the advantage of more convenience and less plastic and other waste going into landfills and polluting the world.

I also don't know why you feel you must use profanities when someone has different preferences than you.

[Mirror Image]

Certainly you can buy physical media if you are attracted to packaging. But I don't know why you associate "physical product" with playing though your stereo and files on your computer playing through a desktop sound bar. If I insert a disc into my Marantz SACD player, or stream a FLAC file I ripped from the same disc to the same SACD player (which can function as a DAC) or stream a FLAC file obtained directly from the record label to the SACD player it is the same audio data being reproduced and the exact same experience, whether I am using my amp and speakers, or my dedicated headphone amp and my Beyerdynamic headphones. For me only the music matters and downloads offer the advantage of more convenience and less plastic and other waste going into landfills and polluting the world.

I also don't know why you feel you must use profanities when someone has different preferences than you.

My point is that buying a CD box set, in this case the RVW Boult, isn't just about playing the CD back on the computer or stereo, it's about owning something that I feel is an important part of recorded history and that's important to me for sentimental reasons. The first time I heard Vaughan Williams, it was this Boult set. I had tears in my eyes from the listening experience, it changed me. I then read the liner notes and read as much as I could about the composer online. I looked at pictures of the composer, read his timeline, looked at his oeuvre, etc. I get an emotional response from not only the music itself, but I feel that I'm a part of something special by holding the box set in my hands and looking at photos of the composer or reading the liner notes in the booklet. This is what digital downloads or streaming can't emulate --- the tangible aspect of the physical product, but also the notion that you have a piece of recorded history at your fingertips. It's the same thing with people and books. Many readers prefer to hold a book in their hands. They could easily buy an e-book and read it on their tablet or whatever, but it's just not the same thing. I feel this way about buying CDs and box sets and I don't ever see this changing as long as I'm fortunate enough to have the collection I own right now.

[vandermolen]

All of the CD releases of the Boult/RVW symphonies are 1989 or 1991, so a new master has the potential to be a noticeable improvement. Hopefully the new transfers will end up available for hirez download so it won't be necessary to buy the obscenely overpriced fetish Japanese release.

Thank you Arthur. I'm hoping that this fabulously presented set will become available in the UK although this is probably wishful thinking. It was a fabulous set. The earlier Boult Decca set (made with VW in attendance) has a special urgency and intensity although Boult's later EMI set (which I grew up with on LP) has a more reflective ambience and is equally valid. I really like symphonies 2, 4, 7 and 9 in the EMI set although the others are all very good (6 was selected as the top choice in '1000 CDs you need to hear before you Die') I prefer the Decca No.6 but they are all fine too. Previn is my top choice for 2 (1936), 3,5 and 8.
PS I agree with RS about this recording of Wenlock Edge - this CD is also v strongly recommended as it features an unrivalled performance of Warlock's masterpiece 'The Curlew'. I could live without the '10 Blake Songs' - 5 would have been enough for me!

[Roasted Swan]

I love On Wenlock Edge and I'm sure I've heard Ian Partridge's voice before. I'm sure I won't have any objections.

Ian Partridge sings the VERY short tenor solo on the recording of Sancta Civitas that was one of your 5 chosen discs above.  I only ever worked with him once - quite late in his career.  He was singing The Evangelist in the St. John - absolutely gorgeous - expressive and unforced.  Actually if you ever see his name on anything you can be pretty sure it will be good!  I think he is on those old Baccholian Singers recordings of Holst part songs etc.  His Warlock "The Curlew" is exceptionally fine too.  One of his lesser known recordings but he has an ideal voice for the work is his Britten Serenade for Tenor Horn and Strings.  This is a great version with the wonderful Nicholas Busch on horn.  Its hidden on this (unpromising looking) pair of discs;



currently on UK Amazon for 95p!! (+P&P)

[Roasted Swan]

My point is that buying a CD box set, in this case the RVW Boult, isn't just about playing the CD back on the computer or stereo, it's about owning something that I feel is an important part of recorded history and that's important to me for sentimental reasons. The first time I heard Vaughan Williams, it was this Boult set. I had tears in my eyes from the listening experience, it changed me. I then read the liner notes and read as much as I could about the composer online. I looked at pictures of the composer, read his timeline, looked at his oeuvre, etc. I get an emotional response from not only the music itself, but I feel that I'm a part of something special by holding the box set in my hands and looking at photos of the composer or reading the liner notes in the booklet. This is what digital downloads or streaming can't emulate --- the tangible aspect of the physical product, but also the notion that you have a piece of recorded history at your fingertips. It's the same thing with people and books. Many readers prefer to hold a book in their hands. They could easily buy an e-book and read it on their tablet or whatever, but it's just not the same thing. I feel this way about buying CDs and box sets and I don't ever see this changing as long as I'm fortunate enough to have the collection I own right now.

Yup - what you've written could be me exactly!  Rationally I know that the "data" might be the same from a CD or a high res download/stream but give me physical product every time.  Also, I just love old books and sheet music.  I get a buzz just holding them - of course the content can be easily sourced via a tablet or online but my emotional rsponse is almost zero then.  But each to their own and if it brings you happiness - good for you.

[vandermolen]

Ian Partridge sings the VERY short tenor solo on the recording of Sancta Civitas that was one of your 5 chosen discs above.  I only ever worked with him once - quite late in his career.  He was singing The Evangelist in the St. John - absolutely gorgeous - expressive and unforced.  Actually if you ever see his name on anything you can be pretty sure it will be good!  I think he is on those old Baccholian Singers recordings of Holst part songs etc.  His Warlock "The Curlew" is exceptionally fine too.  One of his lesser known recordings but he has an ideal voice for the work is his Britten Serenade for Tenor Horn and Strings.  This is a great version with the wonderful Nicholas Busch on horn.  Its hidden on this (unpromising looking) pair of discs;



currently on UK Amazon for 95p!! (+P&P)

I like that (unpromising looking set) not least for the fine CFP performance of Tippett's Concerto for Double String Orchestra as well as the VW  Prelude and Fugue + Tallis Fantasia.

[vandermolen]

Here are a few of my favourite VW recordings:
A big plug here for the beautiful 'Epithalamion'.

[Roasted Swan]

Here are a few of my favourite VW recordings:
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excellent choices all!

[vandermolen]

excellent choices all!

Thank you!