Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Mirror Image]

The Slatkin cycle is mysterious, as it has been out of print for some time, despite a generally creditable assessment by critics and fans.

I started with Previn and he is still my reference, though I sometimes prefer a more level approach. I think he is supreme in 7 and 9.
Thomson is great in 8, but I otherwise find him a bit stiff.

I can barely tolerate Previn because of the horrible RCA audio. The only RVW Previn recording I liked was his performance of the 5th with the Royal Philharmonic on Telarc. What an excellent performance and one I still find passionate. I don't view Thomson's cycle as stiff, I think it's quite a muscular cycle that clearly stands in a class of its own. Handley's is okay, not one of my favorites. I like Andrew Davis' recordings on Teldec and he did a fine cycle. Both of Boult's are fine. The Naxos cycle is generally good (it has two conductors Bakels and Paul Daniel), and Slatkin's cycle suffered from bad audio as well as the volume level was set so low and the balance of the orchestra is way off the mark.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I'm still looking for a totally acceptable performance of the 6th. I like the Previn from the performance standpoint, but the audio is poor as Mr. Image says - kind of a flat and hard perspective. I didn't like the much praised Andrew Davis; I think he plays down the drama too much.

[Mirror Image]

I'm still looking for a totally acceptable performance of the 6th. I like the Previn from the performance standpoint, but the audio is poor as Mr. Image says - kind of a flat and hard perspective. I didn't like the much praised Andrew Davis; I think he plays down the drama too much.

What about Boult or Thomson? The Thomson is an especially fine performance:

[asin]B000000AIV[/asin]

[eyeresist]

I can barely tolerate Previn because of the horrible RCA audio.

Heh, that's the downside of having an audiophile sound system. No such worries for me!

Handley's is okay, not one of my favorites. I like Andrew Davis' recordings on Teldec and he did a fine cycle. Both of Boult's are fine. The Naxos cycle is generally good (it has two conductors Bakels and Paul Daniel), and Slatkin's cycle suffered from bad audio as well as the volume level was set so low and the balance of the orchestra is way off the mark.

I liked Handley in 3-6. I was surprised he did so well in 3 and 5, as I don't normally think of him as especially sensitive or expressive.
I think the Naxos cycle overrated, except for the Antartica. Bakels generally lacked expression (no doubt considers himself a "Modernist"), while Daniels by contrast pulled the tempos about too much in the 4th.
Boult EMI I think doesn't offer much that can't be had in later, better recordings - except he is great in 4 and 6 (though I think 4 ends not as strongly as it begins). I still haven't heard the Decca cycle
I have Davis's 6 and don't see why it's so praised; it's well played, but anonymous in terms of interpretation.

Oh! And Haitink is BORING. I thought his approach worked best in the 6th, as to me it implied a dark current flowing beneath a placid surface.

Any specific opinions on Thomson unusually slow 8th?

[Lethevich]

I also find Handley strong in the 1st and 7th, and fine in the 8th. The 7th in particular is very good, but his restraint works well in the 6th and 8th, resolutely not over-egging the pudding. I suspect that if he got the recorded sound quality of the Haitink, people might be a little warmer to the charms of the performances as a whole. As it stands, the sound can make his take sound a bit "small" in addition to his classical poise.

@Velimir: try this one:
[asin]B0018OAP2U[/asin]
It's not exactly typical, but it's gripping, and every performance on this twofer is superb. Even the rather unkown Gibson ranks highly in the crowded field of the 5th (I prefer it to Handley, it has a similar conception), but the reason to buy this is for an absolutely essential 4 and 6.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

every performance on this twofer is superb. Even the rather unkown Gibson ranks highly in the crowded field of the 5th (I prefer it to Handley, it has a similar conception), but the reason to buy this is for an absolutely essential 4 and 6.

Ha. I've already got half of that (the Berglund 4th, et al). If only they'd issued the 6th separately! 

[vandermolen]

I think that Slatkin's VW set was very underrated. I like his No 9 very much indeed and have enjoyed all the others. His Shostakovich Symphony No 8 is my favourite as is his Copland Symphony No 3 (it was a pleasure to see him conduct this live at the Proms in London a few years back). As for Symphony No 6 by Vaughan Williams there are not that many entirely successful recordings. My introduction to this turbulent score (VW's greatest symphony IMHO) was Boult's old Decca Eclipse LP and that remains my favourite but the New Colin Davis version is very good as is Berglund's recording on EMI. I liked the old Abravanel version too.

A Sea Symphony

It is very odd, having listened to VW's music for 38 years I have never really enjoyed A Sea Symphony. Recently there was a sad event here when our young cat got run over and killed - I was very upset and couldn't listen to any music at all. And then, for some unknown reason, Vaughan Williams's Sea Symphony came into my head - so I played it and found it wonderful, especially the last movement 'The Explorers' - I have played the symphony over and over ever since and am listening to it again now. I think that I was lucky as I chose the Haitink EMI recording to play - it is wonderful, very epic and reminded me of Bruckner or Mahler in places, but remaining faithful to Vaughan Williams's sound world. I was really moved and consoled by this work with its Whitman setting and its dealing with great themes 'of Time and Space and Death' and the journey of the human soul. Perhaps the death of our cat reminded me of the fragility of life. All very odd but if this story sounds naff, in the circumstances, it is true.  Certainly, Haitink's performance of A Sea Symphony brought this work to life for me.

[vandermolen]

I also find Handley strong in the 1st and 7th, and fine in the 8th. The 7th in particular is very good, but his restraint works well in the 6th and 8th, resolutely not over-egging the pudding. I suspect that if he got the recorded sound quality of the Haitink, people might be a little warmer to the charms of the performances as a whole. As it stands, the sound can make his take sound a bit "small" in addition to his classical poise.

@Velimir: try this one:
[asin]B0018OAP2U[/asin]
It's not exactly typical, but it's gripping, and every performance on this twofer is superb. Even the rather unkown Gibson ranks highly in the crowded field of the 5th (I prefer it to Handley, it has a similar conception), but the reason to buy this is for an absolutely essential 4 and 6.

I couldn't agree more - these are amongst the greatest recordings of Vaughan Williams's central three symphonies. Silvestri's Tallis Fantasia is another conspicuous success, with its very atmospheric recording in Winchester Cathedral.

[TheGSMoeller]

Such a big thread so maybe I missed this...but was curious about some of your thoughts about the Hickox original 2nd recording.
I've always preferred the Boult/LPO on EMI, maybe I need more time with the Hickox but I never go to it when I want to listen to RVW's 2nd.

[Mirror Image]

I couldn't agree more - these are amongst the greatest recordings of Vaughan Williams's central three symphonies. Silvestri's Tallis Fantasia is another conspicuous success, with its very atmospheric recording in Winchester Cathedral.

Have you heard Previn's 5th with the RPO on Telarc?

[Lethevich]

Such a big thread so maybe I missed this...but was curious about some of your thoughts about the Hickox original 2nd recording.
I've always preferred the Boult/LPO on EMI, maybe I need more time with the Hickox but I never go to it when I want to listen to RVW's 2nd.

The Hickox recording of the original version replaced all other recordings in my personal estimation. The less taut nature of the first version means that Hickox couldn't really provide a perfect performance (especially as he had no performance tradition of it to draw from), but the recorded sound and playing is very good, and the excised passages of such sublime quality that I can't be without them. It offers a substantially different view of the work, somewhat more emotional, sprawling, and revealing a facet of Vaughan Williams' compositional gestation that reveals tantalising "what if?"s, had he decided to continue down this "maximalist" path. After hearing this, the revised version feels slightly self-defeating - it zips by more tidily, but it offers a series of postcards, perhaps, rather than the whole city.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

It offers a substantially different view of the work, somewhat more emotional, sprawling, and revealing a facet of Vaughan Williams' compositional gestation that reveals tantalising "what if?"s, had he decided to continue down this "maximalist" path. After hearing this, the revised version feels slightly self-defeating - it zips by more tidily, but it offers a series of postcards, perhaps, rather than the whole city.

Excellent! 

[TheGSMoeller]

The Hickox recording of the original version replaced all other recordings in my personal estimation. The less taut nature of the first version means that Hickox couldn't really provide a perfect performance (especially as he had no performance tradition of it to draw from), but the recorded sound and playing is very good, and the excised passages of such sublime quality that I can't be without them. It offers a substantially different view of the work, somewhat more emotional, sprawling, and revealing a facet of Vaughan Williams' compositional gestation that reveals tantalising "what if?"s, had he decided to continue down this "maximalist" path. After hearing this, the revised version feels slightly self-defeating - it zips by more tidily, but it offers a series of postcards, perhaps, rather than the whole city.

Wow, great convincing! I will definitely spend more time with this. Has the original 2nd version found it's way into the concert hall much?

[Sergeant Rock]

Excellent! 

Sara rules.

[Scarpia]

Wow, great convincing! I will definitely spend more time with this. Has the original 2nd version found it's way into the concert hall much?

As I understand it Vaughan Williams withdrew it and his estate has forbidden all performance.  Special permission was sought to obtain a copy of the original score and make the recording.

[Lethevich]

Sara rules.

Just don't ask me to listen to a clip of it blind - I'd probably guess it was Prokofiev or something

(NB. obscure reference to a blind listening thread, nothing about the original version sounds that different!)

[Sergeant Rock]

Just don't ask me to listen to a clip of it blind - I'd probably guess it was Prokofiev or something

(NB. obscure reference to a blind listening thread, nothing about the original version sounds that different!)

By the way, I don't think you've given us an official answer. You were fishing but didn't come right out and guess a specific work. You're still in the game.

Sarge

[vandermolen]

Have you heard Previn's 5th with the RPO on Telarc?

Just bought it coincidentally! Haven't listened yet.  I prefer the Walton Symphony No 1 on Telarc by Previn to the much lauded RCA recording.

[Lethevich]

The Previn/Telarc 5 is definitely the most beautiful sounding recording of the piece that I have heard - just gorgeous. I have read comments here and there about it lacking a little depth, but I confess that I struggle to find depths in this work that I will be perpetually over-familiar with.

[vandermolen]

Such a big thread so maybe I missed this...but was curious about some of your thoughts about the Hickox original 2nd recording.
I've always preferred the Boult/LPO on EMI, maybe I need more time with the Hickox but I never go to it when I want to listen to RVW's 2nd.

I was very fortunate to hear Hickox conduct this at the Barbican (the first performance of the 1913 version since around the time of the First World War). I spoke briefly to Richard Hickox after the concert and he agreed with me that VW was nuts (not the expression I used!) to excise the most moving part of the London Symphony - an absolutely beautiful passage in the Epilogue, just before the end. When I listen to the 1936 version of the Symphony this is the section that I always miss. There is a recording from World War Two (Cincinnati SO, Goossens) on Biddulph, which is of the 1920 version and which still features this music.  I wish that VW had not made any other cuts in 1936.  The structure may have been tightened but I think that the Symphony lost more than it gained.  I always play the 1913 version now.  That Chandos CD is one of the greatest ever Vaughan Williams CDs. Now that Ursula Vaughan Williams is dead we may never here this version live again I guess.