Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Karl Henning]

Excellent, and welcome, xochitl!

[TheGSMoeller]

so ive been getting into V-W after hearing the 3rd symphony.  made a tremendous impression on me.  so far ive heard the string quartets and quintet, symphony #4,  and lark ascending

good stuff

Don't stop there, Xochitl! 

You really can't go wrong with your RVW exploration at this point, you already have a nice collection for an introduction. More symphonies, I like #2 and 8, some choral (Dona Nobos Pacem) and of course his Thomas Tallis Fantasia

[Mirror Image]

so ive been getting into V-W after hearing the 3rd symphony.  made a tremendous impression on me.  so far ive heard the string quartets and quintet, symphony #4,  and lark ascending

good stuff

Vaughan Williams is in my top 5 favorite composers and someone I never get tired of listening to. I'm glad you're discovering his music. His symphonies are in my estimate some of the most imaginative of all 20th Century music. They are all distinctive worlds unto themselves. Outside of the symphonies, RVW was still a strong composer with works like Job, A Masque for Dancing, The Lark Ascending, Flos Campi, Dona nobis pacem, Five Tudor Portraits, the Tuba Concerto, Concerto for Two Pianos, Partita for String Orchestra, Five Variants on 'Dives and Lazarus', and Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis.

Hope you enjoy the music as much as I have!

[Dundonnell]

And if I remember correctly,  you're not a whisky drinker, correct?  Are you sure you're a Scot?

While it's true that I've never done any of those things (other than drink the whisky),  I can at least point to the fact that I've been in Scotland for exactly five days (and two of them not full days) on one of those package tours of Britain where you see all the highlights in twelve days and not much of anything else (and sometimes not much of the highlights--Glasgow, for instance, was limited to afternoon rush hour traffic and running through Kelvingrove Museum just before closing time before heading off to our hotel)--what I call the "If you look closely, you'll see Stonehenge on the left" type of tour.

So I have a reason not to have tossed cabers and wear kilts...

You are correct about the whisky   And, yes, I am quite sure that I am a Scot

[Mirror Image]

You are correct about the whisky   And, yes, I am quite sure that I am a Scot

Let's get back on topic, shall we?

[Dundonnell]

I grovel in abject apology

(But don't let cilgwyn back into this thread )

[Mirror Image]

I grovel in abject apology

(But don't let cilgwyn back into this thread )

No, the Welsh aren't welcome here.

[kishnevi]

Let's get back on topic, shall we?

Threads have topics on GMG?  Well, the things one learns!

Thread duty, albeit a bit extra-musical. 
This is primarily for anyone who has access to EMI's 30 CD RVW: Collector's Edition box.  I happened to take it to review the track listings and noticed the photograph of RVW which appears at the beginning.  I'd be interested in knowing where and when it was taken   He seems to be sitting on a bench in front of the window of what might be a kitchen, breakfast parlor, or pub (there seem to be serving dishes of some sort placed on the inside window ledge) and is wearing:

a blazer (wool, I think)
over a sweater vest
over a sweater
over a just barely glimpsed shirt (collar--no tie that I can see).

My interest was piqued.  Did he always wear several layers of clothing, and why?

Thanks for any info.

[Mirror Image]

Threads have topics on GMG?  Well, the things one learns!

Thread duty, albeit a bit extra-musical. 
This is primarily for anyone who has access to EMI's 30 CD RVW: Collector's Edition box.  I happened to take it to review the track listings and noticed the photograph of RVW which appears at the beginning.  I'd be interested in knowing where and when it was taken   He seems to be sitting on a bench in front of the window of what might be a kitchen, breakfast parlor, or pub (there seem to be serving dishes of some sort placed on the inside window ledge) and is wearing:

a blazer (wool, I think)
over a sweater vest
over a sweater
over a just barely glimpsed shirt (collar--no tie that I can see).

My interest was piqued.  Did he always wear several layers of clothing, and why?

Thanks for any info.

I may have seen this picture. Anyway, I'm not sure why RVW wore layers of clothing, but every picture I've seen he has two or three layers of clothes on. Don't know why exactly.

[Dundonnell]

You two gentlemen appear to reside in Florida and Georgia respectively.

May I impress upon you that Great Britain does not enjoy the tropical climate enjoyed by the southern states of the USA. Uncle Ralph was probably very cold at the time and was dressed up for the weather conditions.

I don't know when the photograph was taken but RVW liked to go for long walks in the countryside, often accompanied by his chum Gustav Holst. Although the South of England is, usually, warmer than Scotland(eek....sorry to mention that again ), it can still be a trifle chilly. RVW habitually wore a waistcoat as part of a three-piece suit.

[Mirror Image]

You two gentlemen appear to reside in Florida and Georgia respectively.

May I impress upon you that Great Britain does not enjoy the tropical climate enjoyed by the southern states of the USA. Uncle Ralph was probably very cold at the time and was dressed up for the weather conditions.

I don't know when the photograph was taken but RVW liked to go for long walks in the countryside, often accompanied by his chum Gustav Holst. Although the South of England is, usually, warmer than Scotland(eek....sorry to mention that again ), it can still be a trifle chilly. RVW habitually wore a waistcoat as part of a three-piece suit.

I don't know if you call living in a subtropical climate enjoyable. The problem with weather in Georgia is it changes very quickly. The summers are usually hot and humid. The coldest months are December-February, but this year was surprisingly warm here whereas last year around that time we had two different snow storms that really put a damper on activity. Let's just say we're not used to the snow and more importantly the ice that follows with it!

[kishnevi]

You two gentlemen appear to reside in Florida and Georgia respectively.

May I impress upon you that Great Britain does not enjoy the tropical climate enjoyed by the southern states of the USA. Uncle Ralph was probably very cold at the time and was dressed up for the weather conditions.

I don't know when the photograph was taken but RVW liked to go for long walks in the countryside, often accompanied by his chum Gustav Holst. Although the South of England is, usually, warmer than Scotland(eek....sorry to mention that again ), it can still be a trifle chilly. RVW habitually wore a waistcoat as part of a three-piece suit.

It was wearing the two sweaters over each other and under a wool blazer that caught my attention.  I know it can get cold in the UK--but cold enough to wear all that? (this wasn't a three piece suit--it was clearly a sweater vest over another sweater, and everything he wore was a bit rumpled and obviously, in terms of that era,  casual clothing).

Admittedly,  in South Florida we consider anything under 65 F to be extreme cold,  but in MI's part of Georgia,  while it can humid and sultry in summer,  can get chilly enough, although it usually gets snow no more than once a year and sometimes not even that much. (I went to college in Atlanta,  which is in the foothills of the Appalachians and therefore actually more mountainous than much of the Highlands).

And my one day in the Highlands, in July,  the temps reach over 80 F.

[Mirror Image]

Admittedly,  in South Florida we consider anything under 65 F to be extreme cold,  but in MI's part of Georgia,  while it can humid and sultry in summer,  can get chilly enough, although it usually gets snow no more than once a year and sometimes not even that much. (I went to college in Atlanta,  which is in the foothills of the Appalachians and therefore actually more mountainous than much of the Highlands).

And my one day in the Highlands, in July,  the temps reach over 80 F.

Ah, yes, the Appalachian Mountains. Home of raccoons, bears, hillbillies, and my sleeping bag that I accidently left behind on a camping trip about 15 years ago.

[Mirror Image]

It seems that RVW's 4th and 6th symphonies seem to still give some listeners problems. I find these two symphonies to be two of the most compelling symphonies written by a British composer. I really like all of RVW's symphonies, but it seems that these two symphonies' violence nature sparks something inside of me. How could someone so humble and kind, compose something so ominous? Any thoughts?

[raduneo]

It seems that RVW's 4th and 6th symphonies seem to still give some listeners problems. I find these two symphonies to be two of the most compelling symphonies written by a British composer. I really like all of RVW's symphonies, but it seems that these two symphonies' violence nature sparks something inside of me. How could someone so humble and kind, compose something so ominous? Any thoughts?

Well, since the 4th is a war symphony, perhaps he is trying to portray war for what it is: ominous, threatning and full of despair. It never gets lyrical: the slow movement is merely subdued danger. I think the subject matter dictates it. Likewise, the 6th is related to the war. I think the subject matter calls for it.

I don't see why they would be so difficult for newcomers. Given good interpretations (Bernstein for the 4th, Boult for 6th?), they are fairly tame works, compared to other dissonant symphonies. I find Shostakovich's 4th considerably more troublesome, Prokofiev 2nd also more dissonant, not to mention Simpson! Given that the person has familiarized itself with the Rite of Spring, they should be ready for these in my opinion. These are beautiful works indeed!

[Mirror Image]

Well, since the 4th is a war symphony, perhaps he is trying to portray war for what it is: ominous, threatning and full of despair. It never gets lyrical: the slow movement is merely subdued danger. I think the subject matter dictates it. Likewise, the 6th is related to the war. I think the subject matter calls for it.

I don't see why they would be so difficult for newcomers. Given good interpretations (Bernstein for the 4th, Boult for 6th?), they are fairly tame works, compared to other dissonant symphonies. I find Shostakovich's 4th considerably more troublesome, Prokofiev 2nd also more dissonant, not to mention Simpson! Given that the person has familiarized itself with the Rite of Spring, they should be ready for these in my opinion. These are beautiful works indeed!

What's interesting and perhaps of important note is the composer himself said there was no program in either symphony. In fact, in the documentary O Thou Transcendent: The Life of Vaughan Williams one commentator points out that the frustrations he was feeling from his first marriage resulted in the turbulent feelings expressed in his 4th symphony.

As for the 6th, when questioned about if there was a possibility that the theme of the work dealt with WWII, RVW replied "Can't a man just write a piece of music?"

By the way, I know there are plenty of dissonant symphonies in the 20th Century, this is, after all, my favorite period of music, but my point is these works, for RVW, were aggressive and bitter in complete contrast with a lot of his other works, which don't express these kinds of feelings at all.

[Elgarian]

I don't see why they [the 4th and 6th symphonies] would be so difficult for newcomers.

But isn't it true that it's invariably hard to understand why others struggle with what we find easy? As Solzhenitsin's Ivan Denisovitch says: 'How can a man who's warm understand a man who's cold?' I've been listening to RVW for decades, but still can't enjoy the 4th and 6th. The sheer bleakness of them leaves me feeling low-spirited. On the other hand the poetry of Ted Hughes can also be bleak, but it leaves me buoyant and energised. There's no accounting for these personal contradictions as far as I can see.

[Karl Henning]

Indeed.

And after all, for practically any piece of music there can be a listener who finds it somehow difficult.

[Dundonnell]

I just don't know how much of the VW 'image' to believe. Was he really "humble and kind" I don't know. Many people liked him, that's certainly true. He had the 'image' of a somewhat dotty, old chap.....but he wasn't always old and, it is clear, was a man of passion as well as very high intelligence. Did he forget how many sweaters he already had on when he donned another? Hmmmm.

However, I was grateful for the insights in the weather conditions to be expected at different times of the year in both Georgia and Florida

[Elnimio]

I found the 4th and 6th symphonies much more accessible than his other symphonies, at first, but that's because I like dark, turbulent, music in general. But then again, Variations of a Theme by Tallis is my favorite piece of all time, so...