Great composers that are not your cup of tea

[kishnevi]

And spurred by this thread,  I dug out that Boulez CD and have it on now.

And it's not boring me.  Mes regrets a Pierre.   
I don't actually like it,  but I'm hearing coherence and structure I don't remember noticing before.  I had forgotten that this CD also has Derive I and Derive II on it,  which I sort of kind of am enjoying at the moment.  It's been about a year since I've tried listening to this.  Maybe if I wait another year,  I'll actually like it.

[RJR]

I nominate Bartok's 2nd Violin Concerto and Frank Martin's Violin Concerto over the Sibelius.

[AllegroVivace]

A lot of music by Mozart sounds like a child's play to me.

As far as modern music, I never really understood what's special about Boulez, Stokhausen and Cage.

[Amfortas]

Well, I don't think they are very important anymore (Boulez and Stockhausen, Cage is a special case since his influence transcended music and left an indelible mark on the arts in general and I think is important still, but not as much for composers as painters, etc.) - but for a certain period of time, say from 1950-1970, they (esp. Boulez and Stockhausen) were very influential and important.   Most composers ultimately did not continue to follow B&S, and I think that much of what they were concerned with ended up as a dead end.  Which is not bad, what they did had significance and the music is still very good and valuable to have.

Mozart, OTOH, is always relevant and his music a far cry from child's play.

I think Boulez and Stockhausen are still vital today (their music, that is). They're both still performed, so they must speak to enough of the performers and audience.. As for Cage, I'd list him on this thread as a great composer whose music does absolutely nothing for me. His ideas, otoh, I agree were extremely influential. I'd much rather listen to Cage talk, or read about him, than listen to most of his music I have heard

[karlhenning]

And spurred by this thread,  I dug out that Boulez CD and have it on now.

And it's not boring me.  Mes regrets a Pierre.   
I don't actually like it,  but I'm hearing coherence and structure I don't remember noticing before.  I had forgotten that this CD also has Derive I and Derive II on it,  which I sort of kind of am enjoying at the moment.  It's been about a year since I've tried listening to this.  Maybe if I wait another year,  I'll actually like it.

Can't ask for fairer than that!

[Grazioso]

A lot of music by Mozart sounds like a child's play to me.

Mozart is the most inaccessible of the great masters. --Artur Schnabel

[eyeresist]

I nominate Bartok's 2nd Violin Concerto and Frank Martin's Violin Concerto over the Sibelius.

I'd put Milhaud's 2nd over both of those (all three were on a recent ABC Classics reissue - http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/June05/20thC_Violin_4767182.htm ). But the Sibelius is probably better still!

[Brahmsian]

Mozart is the most inaccessible of the great masters. --Artur Schnabel

Corrected.    With all due respect, Mr. Schnabel.

[DavidW]

Mozart is the most inaccessible metal of the great masters. --Artur Schnabel

I also fixed that for you.

[Florestan]

I also fixed that for you.

Metal, like in Metallica? 

[westknife]

A lot of music by Mozart sounds like a child's play to me.

Well, a lot of it literally is.

[Florestan]

Well, a lot of it literally is.

Maybe, but according to Nietzsche whomever lost his inner child is already dead. 

[Wanderer]

Quoting Schnabel, Mozart's music can be too easy for children and too difficult for adults.

[kishnevi]

Well, if we're quoting musicians about Mozart, here's Vladimir Horowitz: 
"Mozart should be played as if he were Chopin, and Chopin should be played as if he were Mozart."

[Mirror Image]

I despise most Classical Era composers, but I also have a strong indifference to composers like Stockhausen, Boulez, Xenakis, and Messiaen. I just can't find one positive thing to say about any of them. Boulez, the conductor, however, I admire. Such remarkable detail given to his performances.

[AllegroVivace]

I despise most Classical Era composers, but I also have a strong indifference to composers like Stockhausen, Boulez, Xenakis, and Messiaen. I just can't find one positive thing to say about any of them. Boulez, the conductor, however, I admire. Such remarkable detail given to his performances.

It's amazing how the human brains are wired. I feel exactly the same way about these composers. If all of the world's music was limited to the Classical-era compositions, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with music at all.

And I had the same experience with composers like Stockhausen, Boulez, Xenakis, Messiaen, Cage. Years and years of trying to listen to their music with open mind and free from all prejudice... And... Nothing! Won't help. I just can't stand anything they've done. More amazingly, when I simply read their written words, their ideas and intellectual declarations, too, seem stupid and pretentious to me. I have given up and accepted that they're just not my 'cup of tea"

[Mirror Image]

It's amazing how the human brains are wired. I feel exactly the same way about these composers. If all of the world's music was limited to the Classical-era compositions, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with music at all.

And I had the same experience with composers like Stockhausen, Boulez, Xenakis, Messiaen, Cage. Years and years of trying to listen to their music with open mind and free from all prejudice... And... Nothing! Won't help. I just can't stand anything they've done. More amazingly, when I simply read their written words, their ideas and intellectual declarations, too, seem stupid and pretentious to me. I have given up and accepted that they're just not my 'cup of tea"

If a person has to intellectualize a piece of music to death, then it's probably not worth hearing in my opinion.

[AllegroVivace]

If a person has to intellectualize a piece of music to death, then it's probably not worth hearing in my opinion.

I think the reason for that is that human intelligence is powerful enough to make sense of almost anything. The power of rationalization and self-deceit are all part of our intelligence too, unfortunately.

[Mirror Image]

I think the reason for that is that human intelligence is powerful enough to make sense of almost anything. The power of rationalization and self-deceit are all part of our intelligence too, unfortunately.

This is true.

[karlhenning]

If a person has to intellectualize a piece of music to death, then it's probably not worth hearing in my opinion.

You don't think that maybe this reflects more on the person, than on the music?

In other words, name ten pieces of music you feel are worth hearing, and I am sure we can find people to intellectualize them to death.  You like Pettersson, right? There's a composer whose music could be readily intellectualized to any extreme you wish.