5 Greatest vs. 5 Favorite Symphonists

[kyjo]

"Greatest" meaning having the most influence and/or being of most historical importance:

Greatest:

Haydn
Beethoven
Bruckner
Mahler
Shostakovich

Favorites:

Bruckner
Mahler
Shostakovich
Tchaikovsky
Sibelius
(it pains me to leave VW out, though )

[vandermolen]

Here we go again.

Greatest:

Beethoven
Bruckner
Sibelius
Mahler
Brahms

Favourites:

Miaskovsky
Vaughan Williams
Sibelius
Braga Santos
Moeran

[kyjo]

Bach

Bach!? Unless you're counting the single-movement Sinfonias from his cantatas, you must be joking!

[vandermolen]

Bach!? Unless you're counting the single-movement Sinfonias from his cantatas, you must be joking!

Silly me 

I had forgotten it was symphonies not composers. I've substituted Brahms now and could have included Haydn, whom I prefer to Mozart.

[kyjo]

Silly me 

I had forgotten it was symphonies not composers. I've substituted Brahms now and could have included Haydn, whom I prefer to Mozart.

I debated whether to include Brahms, but, in the end, it was the mere fact that he composed only four symphonies that worked against him being included. I agree with you about preferring Haydn to Mozart. Only recently have I had this opinion, though. Before, I was more attracted to Mozart's sunny melodicism and thought Haydn's music to be more intellectual. Now, I realize Haydn's music is overall deeper and more complex than Mozart's, and has more lasting value. There's still some Mozart that I like, mainly Symphonies 39-41 and the Requiem, but time has pushed Haydn in front of Mozart for me.

[North Star]

Let the silliness continue... 

I debated whether to include Brahms, but, in the end, it was the mere fact that he composed only four symphonies that worked against him being included. I agree with you about preferring Haydn to Mozart. Only recently have I had this opinion, though. Before, I was more attracted to Mozart's sunny melodicism and thought Haydn's music to be more intellectual. Now, I realize Haydn's music is overall deeper and more complex than Mozart's, and has more lasting value. There's still some Mozart that I like, mainly Symphonies 39-41 and the Requiem, but time has pushed Haydn in front of Mozart for me.

Kyle, do you know Mozart's Clarinet Concerto, PCs (20-27, say) and operas! Haydn may be more historically important, but I wouldn't dare to claim that his music has more emotional depth than mature Mozart.


Greatest:

Haydn
Mozart
Beethoven
Brahms
Sibelius

Favourites:

Beethoven
Brahms
Mahler
Sibelius
Shostakovich

[Brian]

I think I'll steal North Star's list for "Greatest."

Greatest:

Haydn
Mozart
Beethoven
Brahms
Sibelius

The only difficulty, for me, is choosing Sibelius vs. Shostakovich.

Favourites:

Haydn
Beethoven
Dvorak
Sibelius
Martinu

The difficulty here was choosing Martinu vs. Tchaikovsky.

Would anybody be interested - I feel like I ask with all these polls - in explanations of why?

[Sergeant Rock]

Would anybody be interested - I feel like I ask with all these polls - in explanations of why?

Nah...we don't give a shit 

Sarge

[North Star]

I think I'll steal North Star's list for "Greatest."

Greatest:

Haydn
Mozart
Beethoven
Brahms
Sibelius

The only difficulty, for me, is choosing Sibelius vs. Shostakovich.

Favourites:

Haydn
Beethoven
Dvorak
Sibelius
Martinu

The difficulty here was choosing Martinu vs. Tchaikovsky.

Would anybody be interested - I feel like I ask with all these polls - in explanations of why?

Damn, I forgot about Tchaikovsky... Still, that doesn't change anything.
I'd certainly like to read your writing, Brian.
In the 'greatest' list I put emphasis on originality (of each symphony, too), influence, and constant quality.

Nah...we don't give a shit 

Sarge

[DavidW]

Beethoven
Dvorak
Bruckner
Sibelius
Mahler
Shostakovich

I guess I'm not too good at counting!   Greatest=Favorites for me, the two lists are the same.

[kyjo]

Nah...we don't give a shit 

Sarge

True, Sarge!

[kyjo]

Kyle, do you know Mozart's Clarinet Concerto, PCs (20-27, say) and operas! Haydn may be more historically important, but I wouldn't dare to claim that his music has more emotional depth than mature Mozart.

Yes, I do know the late PCs and the Clarinet Concerto and I enjoy them quite a bit. I shouldn't have left them out of my original post. As for the operas, I've stated before that I can't really stomach any opera written before Wagner, so, of course, that would include Mozart's. Outside of the later works, I really like his Symphony no. 25, especially the first movement. I shouldn't give the impression that I dislike Mozart's music, which is far from the case. I just don't put him on a high pedestal like many others do.

[North Star]

Yes, I do know the late PCs and the Clarinet Concerto and I enjoy them quite a bit. I shouldn't have left them out of my original post. As for the operas, I've stated before that I can't really stomach any opera written before Wagner, so, of course, that would include Mozart's. Outside of the later works, I really like his Symphony no. 25, especially the first movement. I shouldn't give the impression that I dislike Mozart's music, which is far from the case. I just don't put him on a high pedestal like many others do.

Fair enough.

Not even Berlioz or von Weber's Die Freischütz?

[DavidW]

I can't really stomach any opera written before Wagner,

What!?  I can understand apathy due to lack of exposure, appreciation or understanding but animosity?  This is a most irrational statement from you.

[kyjo]

Fair enough.

Not even Berlioz or von Weber's Die Freischütz?

Well, maybe "can't stomach" is a bit harsh, but I just can't find much to enjoy in pre-Wagner operas. Berlioz's operas are quite taxing listening for me. Die Freischutz has some good parts, but not enough to keep me coming back to it. Now back to symphonies.....

[kyjo]

What!?  I can understand apathy due to lack of exposure, appreciation or understanding but animosity?  This is a most irrational statement from you.

Like I said, David, I didn't mean to sound harsh in saying that, but the almost exclusively vocal dominance in baroque, classical and early romantic operas does not appeal to me at all. It's more of a lack of appreciation than anything.

[DavidW]

Like I said, David, I didn't mean to sound harsh in saying that, but the almost exclusively vocal dominance in baroque, classical and early romantic operas does not appeal to me at all. It's more of a lack of appreciation than anything.

That is much better stated.  FYI "can't stomach" is synonymous with "can't tolerate" not "I don't appreciate."

[71 dB]

For those who don't "like" opera: Try Rameau!

[kyjo]

For those who don't "like" opera: Try Rameau!

Thanks for the rec, 71 dB! Now back to symphonies, please.....

[Brian]

In the 'greatest' list I put emphasis on originality (of each symphony, too), influence, and constant quality.

Originality, influence, constant quality... hey, those were my criteria, too. In deciding between Sibelius and Shostakovich, I was swayed by the lack of any Sibelius "duds," the pretty huge numbers of composers influenced by Sibelius' symphonies, and an extra-symphonic concern: the fact that the symphonies are so central to Sibelius' achievement. Take away the symphonies and you have some tone poems, a concerto, a few other neat things; take away Shostakovich's symphonies and you still have the quartets, trios, operas, preludes and fugues...

I know that last criteria does not belong in a decision about the Greatest Symphonies. But sometimes I'm not rational.