Great composers whom you like a few works of, but who usually bore you.

[trazom]

Mozart, Mozart, Mozart!

Hike!

[Abuelo Igor]

I heartily dislike the Leningrad symphony

The only good thing he ever did. 

I should probably re-post this over at the Unpopular Opinions thread...

[PerfectWagnerite]

The only good thing he ever did. 

I should probably re-post this over at the Unpopular Opinions thread...

The Leningrad is my favorite Shosty work. It is a difficult work to bring off. The only recording that I totally like is Lenny/Chicago - a no-holds-bar, deliberate, detailed reading that features some of the most terrifying brass playing you are going to hear. If you don't have that recording I can see how the work seems like rather pointless to you.

[Abuelo Igor]

I actually meant it. I was not being sophisticatedly ironic or anything. I appreciate the craftsmanship of works like the string quartets, but the Leningrad is the only music of his that I'm able to enjoy from start to finish. But music lovers of good taste and discernment feel obliged to disparage it, probably because they think that the "invasion march" is cheap, too melodic and too catchy. Never mind the discordant harmonies, the doubled instruments falling out of step and other details of the scoring that make that section more effective and threatening as musical satire than the standard "sinister circus" strategy Shostakovich deploys elsewhere. I enjoy the other three movements as well. I do not find in this symphony the kind of intentional ugliness that rubs me the wrong way in most of the cycle.

[Ken B]

For this thread, I'd have to say Ravel

If you ever need a kidney transplant I'm your guy! 
Seriously, I think we are the only two on GMG.

[Mahlerian]

I actually meant it. I was not being sophisticatedly ironic or anything. I appreciate the craftsmanship of works like the string quartets, but the Leningrad is the only music of his that I'm able to enjoy from start to finish. But music lovers of good taste and discernment feel obliged to disparage it, probably because they think that the "invasion march" is cheap, too melodic and too catchy. Never mind the discordant harmonies, the doubled instruments falling out of step and other details of the scoring that make that section more effective and threatening as musical satire than the standard "sinister circus" strategy Shostakovich deploys elsewhere. I enjoy the other three movements as well. I do not find in this symphony the kind of intentional ugliness that rubs me the wrong way in most of the cycle.

Actually, I think the invasion episode is the only part of the entire ~70 minute work that sounds like the composer actually gave a damn about what he was writing.  The climax that follows it is bathetic in the extreme, and the middle movements, while they contain some nice material, are just dull.

[SimonNZ]

Mozart, Mozart, Mozart!

[Ken B]

Actually, I think the invasion episode is the only part of the entire ~70 minute work that sounds like the composer actually gave a damn about what he was writing.  The climax that follows it is bathetic in the extreme, and the middle movements, while they contain some nice material, are just dull.

It's interesting how his symphonies divide GMGers. We have many here who think bigger, longer, louder is always better. So his symphonies are popular here. We know though, as a factual matter, he was often constrained in his large scale orchestral works by the need to please the party -- in order to, you know, stay alive. To me it's clear that his most honest work is in the smaller scale stuff, the quartets, the preludes and fugues, which were less public so subject to scrutiny, and in the later stuff written when pissing off the party was less likely to get him killed. I think many of the symphonies are bombastic "socialist realism". Symphony 7, a propaganda exercise, amongst them.

[amw]

It's not just a propaganda exercise!!..... the Invasion Theme also works pretty well as a mobile ringtone. At least, that's what I use it for. <_<

[Karl Henning]

... and the middle movements, while they contain some nice material, are just dull.

Very interesting. Because, back in the epoch when I thought I despised the piece, the first movements which won me over, were the middle movements.


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[Karl Henning]

The Leningrad is my favorite Shosty work. It is a difficult work to bring off. The only recording that I totally like is Lenny/Chicago - a no-holds-bar, deliberate, detailed reading that features some of the most terrifying brass playing you are going to hear. If you don't have that recording I can see how the work seems like rather pointless to you.

The listening circumstances were some distance from ideal (an overnight drive through Pennsylvania, crossing into Jersey), but my first experience of the symphony was a radio broadcast of this recording. And (I only later learnt this was fair to neither the piece nor the recording) my takeaway from that time was, I don't think much of the piece.

I didn't address this bit of unfinished business for many years.

When I was in Petersburg and working as The Music Guy for an English-language paper, I needed to listen to the piece in preparation to write my column. Maybe it has changed since, but at the time, there was a shoebox shop within the building of the Grand Philharmonic Hall, where I bought a cassette of Temirkanov leading the St Petersburg Philharmonic. That was the recording by which I learnt the worth of the middle movements. (I've since come to appreciate the entire recording. Oh, and the Lenny/CSO recording.)

But in my own tortuous journey with the piece, it was the Ančerl/Czech Phil disc which sealed the deal for me.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Actually, I think the invasion episode is the only part of the entire ~70 minute work that sounds like the composer actually gave a damn about what he was writing.  The climax that follows it is bathetic in the extreme, and the middle movements, while they contain some nice material, are just dull.

Especially considering it in comparison to the symphony which preceded it! The treatment of thematic material and the seemingly endless tonicisations that permeate the opening movement make for a more interesting 20 minutes of slow music which 5 minutes of slow music from the 7th symphony don't seem to live up to for me.

[Jo498]

The "Leningrad" is mostly deadly dull and WAY too long. Shostakovich is rarely terse but this is among his worst and most overblown efforts.

[Karl Henning]

The "Leningrad" is mostly deadly dull and WAY too long. Shostakovich is rarely terse but this is among his worst and most overblown efforts.

All I will say is, that is what many feel, until the piece finally "clicks" for them.

It is this composer's considered opinion that there is not a superfluous note in the score, and I would not wish it a moment shorter.

[hpowders]

Handel.

I like Messiah, Giulio Cesare, Semele, Jephtha and Solomon, but most other Handel compositions bore me.

[Mahlerian]

The listening circumstances were some distance from ideal (an overnight drive through Pennsylvania, crossing into Jersey), but my first experience of the symphony was a radio broadcast of this recording. And (I only later learnt this was fair to neither the piece nor the recording) my takeaway from that time was, I don't think much of the piece.

I didn't address this bit of unfinished business for many years.

When I was in Petersburg and working as The Music Guy for an English-language paper, I needed to listen to the piece in preparation to write my column. Maybe it has changed since, but at the time, there was a shoebox shop within the building of the Grand Philharmonic Hall, where I bought a cassette of Temirkanov leading the St Petersburg Philharmonic. That was the recording by which I learnt the worth of the middle movements. (I've since come to appreciate the entire recording. Oh, and the Lenny/CSO recording.)

But in my own tortuous journey with the piece, it was the Ančerl/Czech Phil disc which sealed the deal for me.

It seems that my journey was in the opposite direction.  I started with the Bernstein/CSO recording, have heard a number of others, and whatever enthusiasm I had diminished considerably with familiarity.

Last night after this discussion I watched this BBC documentary on the symphony:
https://www.youtube.com/v/_4xeRRdP5M0

Fascinating backstory, truly tragic circumstances, but whenever they play the work itself I'm left completely baffled as to how it's seen as so meaningful on a musical level.

[Chronochromie]

Brahms. Which is interesting because when I first got into classical he became one of my favorites and stayed that way for a while, but for whatever reason the more I listened the less I liked him. First I began to dislike his orchestral works, now I'm indifferent to most of the chamber music too.

I do still like the 4th symphony, the chamber music with clarinet and some late piano works, but I rarely want to listen to anything else he wrote.

[Karl Henning]

It seems that my journey was in the opposite direction.  I started with the Bernstein/CSO recording, have heard a number of others, and whatever enthusiasm I had diminished considerably with familiarity.

One of the many fascinating things about Music is how differently we can hear the same thing ....

[Mahlerian]

One of the many fascinating things about Music is how differently we can hear the same thing ....

No comments about how I'm a mindless modernist who hates beauty?  No jibes about how I can't possibly understand Shostakovich's situation?

I LOVE this forum!

[PerfectWagnerite]

It seems that my journey was in the opposite direction.  I started with the Bernstein/CSO recording, have heard a number of others, and whatever enthusiasm I had diminished considerably with familiarity.

I do not really care for any historical significance of the Leningrad, but I like the bold, unabashed scoring and even more Bernstein's over the top performance. In fact the reading is over-top-personified. The great closing moments do not come across with such ferocity in any other recording, not even close. It is as if Lenny and his great CSO went out and made a statement: Take that, Vienna, or Berlin, or Amsterdam ! This is what 8 horns, 6 trumpets and 6 trumpets sound like !