Schoenberg's Sheen

[Mirror Image]

I've listened to Moses und Aron recently (along with Die Jakobsleiter), it's not my very favourite Schönberg's composition, though I've found it a thrilling, meditative work, of great musical incisiveness, tension and variety; a very good example of the prodigious richness of the schönbergian languages. Very interesting for the complementary polarities both in the music and in the text too.

Really? Out of curiosity, why is it so hard to appreciate?

I've made several attempts at listening to the entire opera, but I found it rather foreboding and densely scored. It's been years since my last attempt, so I might give it another go at some point over the next week or so.

[Lisztianwagner]

I've made several attempts at listening to the entire opera, but I found it rather foreboding and densely scored. It's been years since my last attempt, so I might give it another go at some point over the next week or so.

I understand what you mean, as a matter of fact, the score is quite complex for its multiplicity of aspects and the opera demands great concentration to be fully appreciated. It is no less than Wagner in this. But it's definitely worth doing.

[Mandryka]

For fans of Moses und Aron (or those who are curious), this version from the 2009 Ruhrtriennale, directed by Willy Decker, is fascinating. I have only seen the Met Opera staging by the late Graham Vick (d. 2021), which debuted in 1999 and returned in 2003. The score is so powerful; I wish more American companies would consider producing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0HPN8830Ls&t=67s

--Bruce

Looks good, I went straight for the Golden Calf orgy, obvs!

[bhodges]

Looks good, I went straight for the Golden Calf orgy, obvs!

Hehe, I haven't gotten that far yet, but from some of the comments, it is...erm..."memorable." 

--Bruce

[Mirror Image]

I understand what you mean, as a matter of fact, the score is quite complex for its multiplicity of aspects and the opera demands great concentration to be fully appreciated. It is no less than Wagner in this. But it's definitely worth doing.

I'll definitely get around to it for sure. I own three recordings of it: Boulez (Sony and DG) and Solti. Which one would you listen to? The one with Herbert Kegel on Berlin Classics looks mighty fine as I LOVE his Wozzeck recording.

[staxomega]

I am very fond of it as well and would love to see it performed live, either staged or not. I also need to hear a completion of it.

[Lisztianwagner]

I'll definitely get around to it for sure. I own three recordings of it: Boulez (Sony and DG) and Solti. Which one would you listen to? The one with Herbert Kegel on Berlin Classics looks mighty fine as I LOVE his Wozzeck recording.

Boulez is a guarantee for Schönberg's music, you can't be disappointed by his interpretation; I have his Sony recording too, which is powerfully beautiful. Wow, I didn't know Solti recorded Schönberg, how many recordings did he make?

[staxomega]

Boulez is a guarantee for Schönberg's music, you can't be disappointed by his interpretation; I have his Sony recording too, which is powerfully beautiful. Wow, I didn't know Solti recorded Schönberg, how many recordings did he make?

Just a single one as far as I know. The earliest CD release is the one I would suggest to people as it has the libretto.

[Mirror Image]

Boulez is a guarantee for Schönberg's music, you can't be disappointed by his interpretation; I have his Sony recording too, which is powerfully beautiful. Wow, I didn't know Solti recorded Schönberg, how many recordings did he make?

I don't think Solti recorded much Schoenberg at all --- only Moses und Aron. Yeah, Boulez is a safe bet for sure, but I imagine the Solti is fiery in the best possible sense, too:



Edit: It appears that Solti also recorded the Variations, which was coupled with Mahler's 9th -

[Lisztianwagner]

Just a single one as far as I know. The earliest CD release is the one I would suggest to people as it has the libretto.

I don't think Solti recorded much Schoenberg at all --- only Moses und Aron. Yeah, Boulez is a safe bet for sure, but I imagine the Solti is fiery in the best possible sense, too:



Edit: It appears that Solti also recorded the Variations, which was coupled with Mahler's 9th -

I see, thanks! I should listen to his recording of Variations for Orchestra to have a comparison with the Karajan, the Boulez and the Rattle I've already got. Yes, Solti's intense and expressive conducting usually works in an excellent way with 20th century composers, at least it does with Bartók and Stravinsky, so I supposd it would fit greatly to Schönberg as well.

[staxomega]

I see, thanks! I should listen to his recording of Variations for Orchestra to have a comparison with the Karajan and the Boulez I've already got. Yes, Solti's intense and expressive conducting usually works in an excellent way with 20th century composers, at least it does with Bartók and Stravinsky, so I supposd it would fit greatly to Schönberg as well.

I don't consider myself as much of a Solti fan but that is probably my second favorite Solti performance, behind The Ring.

Random comment on Variations for Orchestra, I found Barenboim's recent performance superb. I was quite surprised, I had my expectations set low with it being a youth orchestra but they played the hell out of it, fresh, vibrant, it had it all.

[Mirror Image]

I revisited several of Arnie's works today: Serenade, Erwartung, Kammersymphonie Nr. 1 and Four Orchestral Songs. All of these works were absolutely splendid and only reaffirm my love for this composer. Tomorrow night I plan to let the Arnie-a-thon continue with the Wind Quintet and a work I'm not hugely familiar with: Phantasy for violin with piano accompaniment. If I have time, I'll squeeze in some of his solo piano music, too.

[Lisztianwagner]

I revisited several of Arnie's works today: Serenade, Erwartung, Kammersymphonie Nr. 1 and Four Orchestral Songs. All of these works were absolutely splendid and only reaffirm my love for this composer. Tomorrow night I plan to let the Arnie-a-thon continue with the Wind Quintet and a work I'm not hugely familiar with: Phantasy for violin with piano accompaniment. If I have time, I'll squeeze in some of his solo piano music, too.

So great, John, I can't disagree about that! I hope you'll enjoy the Wind Quintet, it's a superb, striking work. I'm not familiar with the Phantasy at all, I must absolutely have a listen to it.

[Mirror Image]

So great, John, I can't disagree about that! I hope you'll enjoy the Wind Quintet, it's a superb, striking work. I'm not familiar with the Phantasy at all, I must absolutely have a listen to it.

Here's a good question for you, Ilaria (and others if they want to answer): what works are you not very familiar with or haven't spent much time with?

[Karl Henning]

I don't consider myself as much of a Solti fan but that is probably my second favorite Solti performance, behind The Ring.

Random comment on Variations for Orchestra, I found Barenboim's recent performance superb. I was quite surprised, I had my expectations set low with it being a youth orchestra but they played the hell out of it, fresh, vibrant, it had it all.

Nice!

[Cato]

I've made several attempts at listening to the entire opera, but I found it rather foreboding and densely scored. It's been years since my last attempt, so I might give it another go at some point over the next week or so.

And THAT'S why we LOVE IT!!!        0:)

[Mirror Image]

And THAT'S why we LOVE IT!!!        0:)

I'll definitely be revisiting it whenever I get the chance, Cato. Everyone here who loves Arnie seems to have had a great experience with this opera. I just need to try again.

[Lisztianwagner]

Here's a good question for you, Ilaria (and others if they want to answer): what works are you not very familiar with or haven't spent much time with?

 
Well, in my case, for example, all the Lieder that are not Gurre-Lieder.

[Mirror Image]

 
Well, in my case, for example, all the Lieder that are not Gurre-Lieder.

Oh, Arnie's lieder is fantastic. There was a complete set released some years back on Capriccio that is quite worth your time.

I'm at work or I would post the cover image for you.

[Lisztianwagner]

Some thoughts about the Phantasy for violin and piano that I listened for the first time: such a marvelous, astounding piece, I enjoyed it very much! Like many Schönberg's dodecaphonic works, it shows rich timbric variety and a dense, complex contrapuntal texture, but all the melodic lines are brilliantly developed and juxtaposed to create a striking, powerfully mesmerizing atmosphere, very tense and sharp, especially because of the abrupt timbral changes of the violin, whose virtuosity and expressive possibilities are greatly used and completed by the piano. The first part opens with a rather quiet, but marked pace where the violin proceeds with dissonant, scratching tones as well as trills, tremoli and arpeggios before the movement becomes more sustained and fierer, and then quickly slows the intensity accompanied by recurring trilled passages of the piano, until there's another rithmic boost with repeated chords of both the instruments that leads without pause to the more restless second part. Another amazing composition by Schönberg, no doubt.