Wind Ensemble new Symphony?

[LaciDeeLeBlanc]

A friend and I had a discussion last night concerning Wind Ensemble: Will it eventually become as popular as the symphony orchestra? Will within the next few decades every major city have their own professional Wind Ensemble?

Money is a major issue here. The bottom line is, will people have enough interest to invest in a professional Wind Ensemble? Is the interest in the arts declining or increasing?

Please explain your opinions.

[Bonehelm]

I doubt a wind ensemble can bring the immensely varied and unique sounds and impact of a full 100 piece orchestra. String instruments are crucial to balance off the powerful, heavy bass forces...granted woodwinds + brass can be a wonderful combo too but you won't get the special "screechy" and lush timbre of the strings.

This is coming from someone who has been in a semi professional wind ensemble for over 3 years (trombonist).

[jochanaan]

The concert band has had 100+ years to overtake the orchestra.  Since it hasn't happened yet, I doubt it ever will.  It's too bad, in a way; you can get nearly as varied and powerful a tone from a wind band as from an orchestra.

[Bonehelm]

The concert band has had 100+ years to overtake the orchestra.  Since it hasn't happened yet, I doubt it ever will.  It's too bad, in a way; you can get nearly as varied and powerful a tone from a wind band as from an orchestra.

My friend, I doubt any combination of instruments can produce the lush, warm timbre of the strings..

[jochanaan]

My friend, I doubt any combination of instruments can produce the lush, warm timbre of the strings..

You'd be surprised what a good clarinet section can do.

[Bonehelm]

You'd be surprised what a good clarinet section can do.

Are you implying that the clarinetists of my ensemble is mediocre? 

[mahlertitan]

my top concerns for Wind Ensemble is: not enough famous pieces in the repertoire to keep people interested.

[Mark G. Simon]

A friend and I had a discussion last night concerning Wind Ensemble: Will it eventually become as popular as the symphony orchestra? Will within the next few decades every major city have their own professional Wind Ensemble?

There was a time in the early 20th century when there were professional bands led by John Philip Sousa, Patrick Gilmore and Patrick Conway. They toured, gave concerts, and were quite successful. Since then, good bands have had to have a college or military affiliation, and I don't see that changing in the future.

[LaciDeeLeBlanc]

It is a shame though, I know euphonium players would very much appreciate this. It would be great too, because it provides more jobs available for many able-bodied musicians.

I agree though, nothing can replicate the warmth of the string section. Just like no string player could replicate the power of a brass player.

[hautbois]

my top concerns for Wind Ensemble is: not enough famous pieces in the repertoire to keep people interested.

I think so too. Although if you are talking about combinations of those in the format of Mozarts Wind Serenades or Gounod's Petite Symphony, just check out the Netherlands Wind Ensemble at http://www.nbe.nl/. They were extremely famous in the 60s and 70s and it's core members were musicians of the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra. Some years ago oboist Bart Schneemann has reformed the ensemble and expanded it's size, flexibility, and repertoire. In Europe these type of ensembles seem to be popular, in comparison with the States, i don't see many such professional ensembles. My own experience tells me that playing in a small wind ensemble like NBE be the most fulfiling thing ever for a wind player, definitely less so from a typical symphonic band. (And the repertoire for wind ensemble is excellent, unless a symphonic band is extremely professional, there is not much interesting repertoire available.)

[Bonehelm]

Does anyone have Dallas Wind symphony or Tokyo Kosei Wind orchestra's recordings?

[hautbois]

When i was in high school i was a TKWO nut, with all the major Fenell records. I am almost a 90% classical music audience now, occasionally switching on those marches for nostalgic reasons. Those Sousa marches with Eastman are great!

[mahlertitan]

When i was in high school i was a TKWO nut, with all the major Fenell records. I am almost a 90% classical music audience now, occasionally switching on those marches for nostalgic reasons. Those Sousa marches with Eastman are great!

I love marches, Sousa, Stolz, Strauss II, Von Suppe, Komzak II, Ziehrer, Lehar, Lumbye, etc......

[orange]

I did some googling and found out, that there is quite a mess with terms like wind orchestra and symphonic winds. There is a bit difference between them. Symphonic winds is extended version of wind orchestra ( there're also included strings, but in smaler amount as in symphony orchestra but brings some new quality of sound.
Lately, there has been made transcription of Queen Symphoniy by Tolga Kashif for symphonic winds (includes also violoncellos, solo violin, piano, harp)

BTW, Gran partita(Mozart) is really one of the greatest pieces. If you check it, you will feel what are just the winds capable of

[hautbois]

Highly recommended for any wind enthusiast, but will also ignite the interest in anyone curious, i promise.

[jochanaan]

Symphonic winds is extended version of wind orchestra ( there're also included strings, but in smaler amount as in symphony orchestra but brings some new quality of sound.

This reminds me a little of the discussion regarding "symphony" and "philharmonic" orchestras.

I've seen order forms for band scores that specify "full band" or "symphonic band."  The main difference is that symphonic band scores include more exotic instruments such as English horn, contrabass clarinet, and string bass.  (I've seen string basses in bands, but usually only one, and it's the only string instrument I've seen other than an occasional electric guitar.)

It might be appropriate to ask our forum members which band works they consider greatest.  (Let's leave out for the moment such things as the Mozart and Dvorak serenades and focus on works for full band.)  The Sousa marches are very popular, of course, but musically there are a number of pieces that share similar qualities of greatness with the orchestral masterpieces.  Here are a few of my favorites:

John Barnes Chance: Blue Lake Overture; Incantation and Dance; Variations on a Korean Folk Melody
Gustav Holst: 2 suites and Hammersmith scherzo
Alan Hovhaness: Symphony #23 "Ani"
Charles Ives: "Country Band" March
Felix Mendelssohn: Overture in C
Vincent Persichetti: Symphony #6 for Band
And last and least, P.D.Q. Bach: Grand Serenade for an Awful Lot of Wind Instruments

[Mark G. Simon]

Karel Husa has numerous important works for band, including his masterpiece Music for Prague, 1968, a sensational score which, despite its high dissonance level, never fails to sweep audiences off their feet.

Other band works by Husa are

Apotheosis of this Earth (1970)
Al Fresco (1974)
Concerto for Wind Ensemble (1982)
Les Coleurs Fauves (1996)

and An American Te Deum (1978) is scored for vocal soloists, chorus and band.

[Greta]

Well, it is already extremely popular in its own way, which is mainly for nonprofessional players. It's a wholly different animal than the orchestra.

Here in America virtually every school has a band program, but where I am very few have orchestra (wish we would've!). The amount of kids in jr. high, high school and college band programs in the U.S. is astounding and the band world has its own musical culture which is very strong and active, as far as teaching, marching, conducting, and new composition. This should be celebrated I think. It takes a lot to make up a really good band director, he/she has to be equally adept on the field as on the concert stage, and be able to marshal and motivate a large number of forces to perform widely different activities.

As far as professional wind orchestras, it would be great if there were more, but there are already nonprofessional groups in most big cities (often little known). I think one reason there are not more is that so often the fantastic players in college wind ensembles across the country are in studies to become band directors and college professors (or perhaps orchestral musicians, jazz players), so the people who would be most interested and would make up the best wind orchestras have devoted their career to teaching instead. 

Does anyone have Dallas Wind symphony or Tokyo Kosei Wind orchestra's recordings?

Yes, they are at a high level musically, technically, fine stuff all around. I have a lot of wind ensemble recordings, theirs are favorites, but many other great ensembles feature in my collection as well. The Cleveland Symphonic Winds and Eastman Wind Ensemble, who Fennell made some legendary Living Presence recordings with, and many fine discs (of mostly new music for wind band, transcriptions, and core repertoire) by various military bands, not just of the States but many other countries. There is so much out there as far as repertoire besides marches, that is one *extremely* small portion of wind band literature.

I guess I got a little overdosed on marches as we were raised on them here from beginners (as many bands in East Texas march in a "military" style to, marches) but there are fun and highly interesting works out there from not just Sousa, but Julius Fucik, Kenneth Alford, Karl King, Henry Fillmore, and others that are worth getting to know. Generally these days I prefer to listen to new compositions, or orchestral transcriptions which can be fascinating and often successful colorfully (even if the technical/physical challenges for wind players are not always practical!). 

At the forefront of the wind band recording industry these days are probably the college bands who are recording more new music than ever (often released from live band conference concerts, so no extra cost there) and lesser known wind band works of well-known composers that deserve to be discovered. Eugene Corporon's Klavier Records' Wind Project recordings with Cinncinati Wind Symphony and Univ. of North Texas Wind Symphony are outstanding, awesome performances and a wide mix of repertoire, a great representation of what's out there with 30 some odd discs so far. And Univ. of Houston has finished their ambitious project of recording Percy Granger's complete wind band works which looks like a must-have, his wind writing gorgeous for its balance and stirring nostalgic melodies. 

Karel Husa has numerous important works for band, including his masterpiece Music for Prague, 1968, a sensational score which, despite its high dissonance level, never fails to sweep audiences off their feet.

This is an amazing piece, powerful for the images it evokes. I heard the orchestral version on the radio recently and it is neat to see how he translated it to that medium. The LA Phil podcast with him explaining the piece and its symbols was very interesting.

Some of the other notable wind ensemble repertoire:

Percy Grainger - Lincolnshire Posy, Shepherd's Hey, Colonial Song
Paul Hindemith - Symphony in Bb, Symphonic Metamorphosis (arr.)
Joseph Schwanter - ...and the mountains rising nowhere
Alfred Reed - Armenian Dances, Alleluia Laudamus Te, Russian Christmas Music, the symphonies, suites
Ron Nelson - Passacaglia (Homage to B-A-C-H)
Johan De Meij - Symphony No. 1 'Lord of the Rings'
Igor Stravinsky - Symphony of Wind Instruments
Darius Milhaud - Suite Francaise
Gordon Jacob - William Byrd Suite
Aaron Copland - Emblems
Morton Gould - Symphony No. 4 'West Point'

I did some googling and found out, that there is quite a mess with terms like wind orchestra and symphonic winds.

Regarding nomenclature, I have heard all of these terms and take them to generally mean the same thing - wind ensemble, wind symphony, wind orchestra, symphonic band, concert band, symphonic winds, etc. This is usually an ensemble that ranges from 50-80 players, there are no strings. There are 2 euphoniums (or baritones they are called here). There is a saxophone section, that represents the 4 voices, either soprano, alto, tenor, baritone sax, or two altos. In transcriptions, we often get a good bit of string parts, except we have to breathe, which can be very difficult to bring off.

Now in Europe, there is also "brass band", which doesn't have woodwinds, and in The Netherlands and other places there is "fanfare band", which adds saxophones but no other woodwinds. The Netherlands have a deep culture when it comes to wind bands, they have literally tons of community bands, often called "harmonie" bands, which have a traditional "wind ensemble" makeup. These bands are *strongly* backed by the communities, almost like football teams in some cases, there is a village a Dutch friend told me about, that is divided because they have two main community bands (both extremely good) and half the town supports one, and half supports the other. 

[orange]

About brass bands, as I know these bands were also popular in England. One of the finest composers for brass bands it's Julius Fucik. Anyone else familiar with this composer?