The Philosophy of Music: A Topic Fraught With....

[Cato]

...froth, frivolity, fundamentalism, fun and mentalism, and maybe even an occasional atrabilious atavism!

GMG member and all-around snood of comedy Sean claimed recently that discussion here at GMG has deteriorated over the last decade, and is a symbol of a general Spengleresque Untergang des Abendlandes!   

Given that such hypertrophic and pleonastic opinions are meant to be taken with a few pounds of sodium chloride, or maybe with metallic sodium and un verre d'eau, or even with a lawyer on his way to a sanity hearing, nevertheless we (and who precisely "we" are presents another topic, but would lead us astray at the moment) felt compelled to found a topic guaranteed to raise GMG to the heights of the deepest discussions, and thereby parry any contention that decline and fall are lufting in our clouds of circumratiocination!

And so, we (see the above comment on "we") begin with a question most terrifying in such discussions, a question to which a multiplicity of answers could be seen as possible, hence the terror!  Now you might think the question will be "What is music?"  But this is GMG!!! 

We want the deeper question!   

WHY does music exist?

There!  We await your responses, serious or grave! 

[Cato]

...froth, frivolity, fundamentalism, fun and mentalism, and maybe even an occasional atrabilious atavism!

GMG member and all-around snood of comedy Sean claimed recently that discussion here at GMG has deteriorated over the last decade, and is a symbol of a general Spengleresque Untergang des Abendlandes!   

Given that such hypertrophic and pleonastic opinions are meant to be taken with a few pounds of sodium chloride, or maybe with metallic sodium and un verre d'eau, or even with a lawyer on his way to a sanity hearing, nevertheless we (and who precisely "we" are presents another topic, but would lead us astray at the moment) felt compelled to found a topic guaranteed to raise GMG to the heights of the deepest discussions, and thereby parry any contention that decline and fall are lufting in our clouds of circumratiocination!

And so, we (see the above comment on "we") begin with a question most terrifying in such discussions, a question to which a multiplicity of answers could be seen as possible, hence the terror!  Now you might think the question will be "What is music?"  But this is GMG!!! 

We want the deeper question!   

WHY does music exist?

There!  We await your responses, serious or grave! 

I suppose I should offer an answer as fertilizer    for the discussion!

I suspect several impulses are involved: the impulse to mimic, the impulse to improve or to order the chaos of nature, and the impulse to communicate.

Of course, the origin of such impulses is an even deeper question.

[Karl Henning]

The act of making music engages one's entire self, taking you into another stream of time (and a stream of time in which the jabber ceases to exist, incidentally).  Once you have experienced that, it's like a new country which you are eager to continue to explore.

[Cato]

The act of making music engages one's entire self, taking you into another stream of time (and a stream of time in which the jabber ceases to exist, incidentally).  Once you have experienced that, it's like a new country which you are eager to continue to explore.

Yes, that is a phenomenon I have experienced both in composing music and in writing stories.

It is also a phenomenon which should be familiar to the attentive listener, reader, museum visitor, etc.   E.g. last year I played the Sanctus of the Missa Solemnis by Beethoven for my 8th Grade Latin II students.  When it was finished, I asked them to estimate how much time had passed.

They were all off by up to 20 minutes!

[Karl Henning]

Yes, that is a phenomenon I have experienced both in composing music and in writing stories.

It is also a phenomenon which should be familiar to the attentive listener, reader, museum visitor, etc.

Aye.  And while, in studying the art of composition, I came to see the potential value in pulling one's mind out of the musical time, and bending thought upon it in real-world time, I have also (over the years, and in various environments) experienced how with certain in-some-ways clever listeners, it is a dodge . . . it is (or, can be) a resistance to attention upon the art itself.  It is seductive, because giving the artwork its space can be scary, and the sound of one's own voice can be such a comfort . . . .

[mszczuj]

Music is the backbone of the mind.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Music's genesis throughout the ages has and continues to feed many purposes and hungers across cultures. Some of it higher minded, some lower. Relating to the body, to the mind, to the spirit etc in varying degrees & mixtures. It elevates the species from the others. For those who truly take it seriously (both creators & listeners) .. it is a self discovery, a quest for knowledge, wisdom, insight, creative potential etc. I have personally benefited and improved the quality of my life from a close acquaintance with it. For me, listening, composing and especially playing it myself .. is very therapeutic & healing, it just clears all the garbage from my mind, puts me in a 'zone' .. and calms me tremendously. I have benefited in many other ways from a deep involvement & interest in this art, the deepest and richest of all the arts. And one of the greatest human activities & achievements in history. I need it like I need food & water.

That is a good response. In a play I've been writing about the nature of music, I include the following exchange about what music means to several of the characters:

ED  It's like a calling.
JONAS A benediction.
CLAUDE  An appetite that can never be sated. A reason to carry on despite all our own mistakes and those of the fools of the world. A reliquary of so much the human spirit has produced that's good and holy. An orgasm without end.

[Cato]

The following is an old debate:

"Resolved: music's expressive abilities are extremely primitive.  It can sound happy or sad, peaceful or angry, or simply neutral.  For anything more specific, the composer must turn to words, either in a program or by setting a poem.

E.g. it is impossible to deduce the story of Pelleas and Melisande by listening to Schoenberg's tone poem by that name.  One can hear powerful emotional music, but music's primitive nature can do no more, and so poetry is on a higher level than music."

(And it is that last part that causes the chairs to fly!)   0:)

[Cato]

It was just one of the spices that Arnie brought together for the genesis of that piece. It simply inspired his musical thinking, the mind's inner eye & ear.

Interesting: so Maeterlinck's drama is more of a catalyst for Schoenberg than a sine qua non for the work?

That the music already resided in the unconscious, albeit embryonically, and simply needed a key to unlock it is a rather Platonic idea!

[Karl Henning]

"It was just" is a phrase which can frequently signal fatuity.

[jochanaan]

"Why does music exist?"

Because.

Just because it does.  I can't think of a better answer.

But there is a better question that several have answered here: "What does music do for you?"  For me, as for Karl, music engages my entire being--body, mind (left and right brain), and spirit--and forces me to bring myself to some sort of coordination, cooperation, synthesis.  It also raises my level of "life force" to a much higher level than "ordinary life."  I've said to friends that I feel like I have some kind of alternate identity: "Mild-Mannered jochanaan" and "Music Man!" 

[Cato]

"Why does music exist?"

Because.

Just because it does.  I can't think of a better answer.

But there is a better question that several have answered here: "What does music do for you?"  For me, as for Karl, music engages my entire being--body, mind (left and right brain), and spirit--and forces me to bring myself to some sort of coordination, cooperation, synthesis.  It also raises my level of "life force" to a much higher level than "ordinary life."  I've said to friends that I feel like I have some kind of alternate identity: "Mild-Mannered jochanaan" and "Music Man!" 

Very nice: your commented highlighted above reminded me of a professor I knew, who once said: "In a sense, an evolutionary sense, music is completely worthless."

Reductionists often fall into the trap of excluding things which would unbalance their inverted pyramid of theory.  I suppose one could go on and on about how music is not essential for survival in the African savannahs, etc. etc. etc.

But how does one therefore explain its existence and persistence and its growth in complexity over the millenia?

And it is explained by what you have mentioned: there is something of value - survival value even, for the evolutionary biologists - in Music, something intrinsically important for the entire human being, who needs more than food for the stomach to survive.

[kishnevi]

I'll submit a proposition that is at least somewhat relevant to the main topic of this thread

The more likely a piece of music is to receive what might be called a "definitive performance", the less likely it is to be worth hearing more than once.

[Karl Henning]

Very nice!  I have frequently had a corollary thought, that well-made music can sustain a variety of interpretations.

[Cato]

I'll submit a proposition that is at least somewhat relevant to the main topic of this thread

The more likely a piece of music is to receive what might be called a "definitive performance", the less likely it is to be worth hearing more than once.

Very nice!  I have frequently had a corollary thought, that well-made music can sustain a variety of interpretations.

Many thanks for these thoughts! 

A tangential idea: mediocre music - when heard at a concert and played well - can sound better than it is!

[North Star]

Music is only as good as the performance is - some pieces need more help, and others are marvelous even when the performance isn't perfect.

[Karl Henning]

There are pieces which are like Hamlet . . . even in a ruinous performance, something magnificent.

[petrarch]

The more likely a piece of music is to receive what might be called a "definitive performance", the less likely it is to be worth hearing more than once.

Assuming a "definitive listening", sure. Otherwise, plenty of opportunity to delight in focusing in a different one of a myriad details with each listening, like looking at a multifaceted jewel from a different angle each time...

[(poco) Sforzando]

Music is only as good as the performance is. . . .

I would not agree with that. Music exists not only as sound but as notation. Mahler never heard Das Lied von der Erde, but surely he composed a piece of music. When I go into a sheet music store, I can purchase a piece of music too. There is a performance-listener axis to music, but there are also equally legitimate axes of composition and score study which are independent of performance.

[North Star]

I would not agree with that. Music exists not only as sound but as notation. Mahler never heard Das Lied von der Erde, but surely he composed a piece of music. When I go into a sheet music store, I can purchase a piece of music too. There is a performance-listener axis to music, but there are also equally legitimate axes of composition and score study which are independent of performance.

That's absolutely true, but my reply was in the context of hearing a performance, as that was discussed above my post. Likewise, one can be a great architect even if none of one's plans is ever executed.