The Nielsen Nexus

[Karl Henning]

To move to something non-symphonic: who has a recording of Springtime in Funen?

I'm only even aware of 2 recordings, one conducted by Leif Segerstam and the other by Tamás Vetö. I'm particularly curious about the Segerstam recording (which I think, Mirror Image, you might have bought recently?) as the album as a whole ticks some repertoire boxes very neatly, but I'd also like to know about any other recordings out there.

EDIT: The only professional review of the Segerstam disc that I know about, from Gramophone magazine, has a distinct air of disappointment. And the criticisms it makes about Segerstam pressing the music too hard resurface in an Amazon customer review. Hmm.

I've got this, and I remember liking it.  Let me revisit it, and I shall report better.

[71 dB]

I've got this, and I remember liking it.  Let me revisit it, and I shall report better.

I have this too, but I haven't listened to it in ages! J. F. Willumsen's painting on the cover again! 

[Mirror Image]

I had to go back quite a lot of pages to go find your review and see what I thought as I'm getting into the symphonies more depth. Though of course, because I'm doing them out of order, I can't tell right now how "Romantic" the first 2 symphonies might be compared to this one!

But it's one of Nielsen's most fascinating qualities, a kind of anti-Romanticism (shared in some ways with Sibelius?) where he refuses to let the music descend into something gluggy. The start of the 2nd movement is an example of something that sounds as if it could turn a bit sentimental, but there's a clarity to the lines that prevents that from happening. Similarly with the wordless vocals, that's something you might expect to get terribly misty-eyed but Nielsen keeps that impulse in check.

Having recently spent a lot of time with the Chailly set of Brahms symphonies and the Gardiner set of Schumann ones, I do think there's something in common with those sorts of composers when they're played well, but Nielsen is from the time when late Romanticism was getting into it's biggest excesses so it's all the more interesting that he was more like an early Romantic than a late one.

I can understand your sentiment in regards to Brahms and Schumann, but what Nielsen does, IMHO, is nod to tradition while keeping his distinctive approach to the symphony intact. The third movement, Allegretto un poco, has always reminded me of Janáček with those almost speech-like melodies and irregular, off-kilter rhythms. The last movement, Finale: Allegro, is absolutely ecstatic with joy and exuberance.

[Madiel]

Yes I can see that 3rd movement connection.

[Karl Henning]

To move to something non-symphonic: who has a recording of Springtime in Funen?

I'm only even aware of 2 recordings, one conducted by Leif Segerstam and the other by Tamás Vetö. I'm particularly curious about the Segerstam recording (which I think, Mirror Image, you might have bought recently?) as the album as a whole ticks some repertoire boxes very neatly, but I'd also like to know about any other recordings out there.

EDIT: The only professional review of the Segerstam disc that I know about, from Gramophone magazine, has a distinct air of disappointment. And the criticisms it makes about Segerstam pressing the music too hard resurface in an Amazon customer review. Hmm.

I like the Segerstam recording a lot;  the soloists, chorus, and children's chorus all sound lovely and assured, the orchestra sound beautiful (of course).  The critique of pressing the music too hard baffles me;  I hear ebullience and exultation, the affable seasonal joy apt to the cantata.  There is no sacrifice of ease, no compulsion.

[Madiel]

A very quick comparison on iTunes shows me that "ease" is not a quality I'd associate with Segerstam in comparison to the Tamas Veto recording in the equivalent passage.

[Mirror Image]

A very quick comparison on iTunes shows me that "ease" is not a quality I'd associate with Segerstam in comparison to the Tamas Veto recording in the equivalent passage.

So are you saying you like the Veto performance more?

[Madiel]

So are you saying you like the Veto performance more?

After only about 5 minutes listening total I'm not saying anything of the kind. I'm merely saying that I can understand the basis of the criticisms - if reviewers (professional or Amazon) know that performance, then I can well understand them thinking that Segerstam has sacrificed some ease in comparison.

[Mirror Image]

After only about 5 minutes listening total I'm not saying anything of the kind. I'm merely saying that I can understand the basis of the criticisms - if reviewers (professional or Amazon) know that performance, then I can well understand them thinking that Segerstam has sacrificed some ease in comparison.

Ah okay, the reason why I'm asking is because I own the Veto, but haven't heard it yet.

[Madiel]

Listening to the 1st symphony today, and yeah, coming to it after the 3rd and 5th I can hear how there are some traces of a slightly more conventional romanticism here.

Reminds me a bit of some Russian composers.

Thoroughly enjoyable.

[Karl Henning]

After only about 5 minutes listening total I'm not saying anything of the kind. I'm merely saying that I can understand the basis of the criticisms - if reviewers (professional or Amazon) know that performance, then I can well understand them thinking that Segerstam has sacrificed some ease in comparison.

Several numbers in the score have rather brisk metronome markings, so perhaps their quarrel is with the composer 

[amw]

This might be just my experience, but the 1st is one of those pieces that does benefit from a more extrovert Romantic take—needs to sound like the revolutionary work that it was at the time.

Sakari Oramo gets it right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhfhq6A9e-M&list=PLxOM2B_2NLkaZ1WuQvDJwdtFIuRpGTujM

(Also a very good performance of the 3rd)

Blomstedt is my other favourite, although maybe he drives things a bit too hard, i.e. at the opposite end of Schønwandt who is maybe too relaxed. Btw I do think the 1st is qualitatively the equal of the rest of the symphonies in the cycle, it's just stylistically different and yes a bit more Russian maybe. (all those flatted 7ths...)

[Madiel]

Several numbers in the score have rather brisk metronome markings, so perhaps their quarrel is with the composer 

I think the excerpt was from the 1st number. I haven't looked at the score.

But while we're at it, can we just marvel at the sheer scope of the project that has made Nielsen's entire output available for free online?

[Karl Henning]

Several numbers in the score have rather brisk metronome markings, so perhaps their quarrel is with the composer 

For instance:

Som en græsgrøn Plet : Allegretto un poco ([crotchet] = 96)

Der har vi den aldrende Sol igen : Allegretto moderato ([crotchet] = 84)

Nu vil vi ud og lege : Allegro ([crotchet] = 138)

Kom her, kom her : Allegro molto ([crotchet] = 160)


Of course, I do not know the Veto, and cannot comment on it.


The Segerstam performance, before any other consideration, I find satisfyingly musical.  It honors the markings in the score, and all the chorus, soloists and orchestra are on board, so I hear jubilant music, un-pressed.

I think the excerpt was from the 1st number. I haven't looked at the score.

But while we're at it, can we just marvel at the sheer scope of the project that has made Nielsen's entire output available for free online?

The scope and generosity!

[Karl Henning]

This might be just my experience, but the 1st is one of those pieces that does benefit from a more extrovert Romantic take—needs to sound like the revolutionary work that it was at the time.

I'm going to agree cautiously on the Allegro orgoglioso;  but honestly, I do not want the Andante over-Romantified – there is a delicacy there, which comes straight from Nielsen's musical character, and which I don't want a broad brush crushing.

[amw]

Fair enough. I would apply the same metric to the Allegro comodo I guess.

[Karl Henning]

For instance:

Som en græsgrøn Plet : Allegretto un poco ([crotchet] = 96)

Well, Vetô trends more to a bumptious 88, there.  I do not say it is absolutely wrong (maybe the space needed it), nor would I describe his reading simply as languorous but my own preference is for the Segerstam.

Der har vi den aldrende Sol igen : Allegretto moderato ([crotchet] = 84)

This, though, relaxes to 76-ish;  and begging your pardon, I'm going to consider that lazy (and possibly indulging the baritone soloist).

[Karl Henning]

The children's choir number is only modestly under tempo, but the tone of their singing, the character of the performance, I find insufferable.

The men's choir number which follows is utterly indulgent, suet-ey slow, and although the very last measure is marked poco (!!) rall. they pour it on molto in the penultimate measure.  A number of my quarrels with the performance I am willing to overlook, but this is ghastly, IMO.

[Karl Henning]

. . . which of course pretty much leads us to expect . . .

Kom her, kom her : Allegro molto ([crotchet] = 160)

Nothing in the previous numbers of the cantata would lead us to expect that they are capable of this velocity, and they do go big and slow, 136.  Trying (whether by active intent, or passive disposition) to make it too Beethovenian, I suppose.

So, sure, reviewers who are accustomed to this reading of (or this manner of reading) the piece are going to consider a performance which means to honor the composer's engraved preferences, pressed.

[Mirror Image]

Looks like I should just stick with Segerstam in Springtime in Funen.