The Nielsen Nexus

[Parsifal]

Well, I have to admit I didn't fully realize it was Decca until I the disc arrived. I didn't think about the label. I must have seen the label logo on the cover, but bells didn't ring in my head. Also, even Decca has good sound sometimes so you never know. The sound of this twofer (as for the symphonies) isn't particularly bad, just not as good as Leaper. Decca sound works much better on loudspeakers than headphones (spatial distortion). Someday I may try this twofer with loudspeakers (most of my listening is with headphones these days). I wonder what you would recommend now that you know I am not a die hard fan of Decca sound. Kuchar?

In all fairness, those Decca recordings were made in an era when people were much more likely to listen to them on loudspeakers. Despite the fact that my circumstances now limit me almost entirely to headphone listening, I find loudspeakers are a much superior way to listen to recorded music, simply because you do not experience music exclusively through vibrations that enter your ear canal. Deep bass is experienced with your entire head, and even your entire body. Even with my high-end headphones which have extended bass response, the thud of a bass drum or the growl of the bass violins sounds much more profound when listened to on speakers than using headphones.

[71 dB]

In all fairness, those Decca recordings were made in an era when people were much more likely to listen to them on loudspeakers.

That is true. However, Decca's way is not the only way to record well for loudspeakers. OSS (optimum stereo sound) is the best recording method known to me to achieve sound that works well with both loudspeakers and headphones. ORTF is another headphone-friendly set-up, because in it the microphones are 17 cm apart from each other just like our ears.

Spatial distortion can be easily dealt with crossfeed, but things like colorization and balance between direct sound and reverberation are things we are pretty much forced to live with.

Despite the fact that my circumstances now limit me almost entirely to headphone listening, I find loudspeakers are a much superior way to listen to recorded music, simply because you do not experience music exclusively through vibrations that enter your ear canal. Deep bass is experienced with your entire head, and even your entire body. Even with my high-end headphones which have extended bass response, the thud of a bass drum or the growl of the bass violins sounds much more profound when listened to on speakers than using headphones.

Well, everyone can't play loudspeakers all night long at high volume levels (neighbours!). Room acoustics make loudspeaker sound not so detailed unless you invest tons of money to make it acoustically good. Good headphones are cheap compared to loudspeakers.

The reason why bass frequencies sound so bad with headphones is spatial distortion. Crossfeed fixes this and makes bass just as "realistic" and powerful as from loudspeakers. When you listen to loudspeakers, the level difference between ears at low frequencies is never more than a couple of decibels. Also, the time difference is never larger than about 0.64 ms. Loudpeaker bass is always almost mono at ears! With headphones things are completely different! Level difference can be 10-20 dBs and time difference even 5 ms! Our brain finds this "impossible" because that's what it is unless the sound come at the ears. That's why bass sounds so bad. Crossfeed corrects this. I love headphones with crossfeed. The sound is extremely detailed and I can play loud in the middle of the night without the fear of being evicted. Before discovering crossfeed I didn't like headphones that much.

It is true, that only loudspeakers give body sensations. We can't have everyting... 

[Parsifal]

I usually use cross-feed when listening with headphones, but it does not adequately address the bass problem.

In the days of the LP, a crossover network would be used with the disc cutter so that the low frequency (below ~100 Hz) was mono. This was because the left channel was encoded as a +45 degree displacement and the right channel a -45 degree displacement of the stylus. Mono would cause horizontal motion of the stylus but L/R difference would cause vertical displacement. Too much low-frequency vertical displacement of the stylus was a physical problem. Unfortunately this processing was typically not implemented when the same recordings were remastered for CD.

[DaveF]

I've started exploring this set:



CD 1-4 Symphonies Nos. 1-6 - Aladdin Suite - Symphonic Rhapsody - Overture
"Helios" - Cupid and the Poet: Orchestral Suite - Paraphase on "Nearer, my God, to Thee"
Eva Hess-Thaysen (soprano), Jan Lund (tenor), Nicholas Cox (clarinet), Kevin Price
(trombone), Graham Johns (side drum), Jonathan Aasgaard (cello), Royal Liverpool
Philharmonic Orchestra, Douglas Bostock (1999-2001, 2003)

CD 5 Flute Concerto - Pan and Syrinx - Works for String Orchestra
Rune Most (flute), The Czech Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra Pardubice, Royal Liverpool
Philharmonic Orchestra, Douglas Bostock (2001, 2005)

CD 6 Violin Concerto - Romance for Violin and Orchestra - Violin Sonata No. 1
Malcolm Stewart (violin), Johannes Søe Hansen (violin), Frank Jarlsfelt (piano),
Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Douglas Bostock (1994, 2003)

CD 7 Clarinet Concerto - Wind Quintet - Serenata in vano
John Kruse (clarinet), Cecile Boiffin (side drum), Scandinavian Chamber Players,
The Czech Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra Pardubice, Douglas Bostock (1996)

CD 8+9 Five Piano Pieces - Symphonic Suite - Humoresque Bagatelles - Festive
Prelude - Drømmen om "Glade Jul" (The Dream of "Silent Night") - Chaconne - Theme
With Variations - Suite - Three Piano Pieces - Piano Music for Children and Adults
Anne Øland (piano) (1992-1993)

CD 10 Music Set to Five Poems by J. P. Jacobsen - Six Songs Set to Texts by Ludvig
Holstein and other lieder
Ulrik Cold (bass), Johannes Mikkelsen (piano) (1980, 1982)

Thanks for that listing.  I hadn't paid much attention to the contents of this box before, but - Romance for violin and orchestra; Anne Øland's complete piano music; a whole disc of songs.  Interesting!

[71 dB]

I usually use cross-feed when listening with headphones, but it does not adequately address the bass problem.

Many crossfeeders are a bit weak, that is they don't even out the bass between ears enough. It depends on the recording, how much crossfeed if needed for optimum result. Too much crossfeed is bad too.

In the days of the LP, a crossover network would be used with the disc cutter so that the low frequency (below ~100 Hz) was mono. This was because the left channel was encoded as a +45 degree displacement and the right channel a -45 degree displacement of the stylus. Mono would cause horizontal motion of the stylus but L/R difference would cause vertical displacement. Too much low-frequency vertical displacement of the stylus was a physical problem. Unfortunately this processing was typically not implemented when the same recordings were remastered for CD.

That is "elliptic" filtering and is efectively crossfeeding at lowest frequencies (typically 150 Hz or 300 Hz being the cut off frequency). It's possible this filtering is one reason why some people (who use headphones such as DJs) find vinyl sound better than CD. Channel separation is worshipped on CD too much just because "infinite" separation is technically possible. With loudspeakers it makes little difference, because room acoustics is a (complex) strong crossfeeder. In "real life" channel separation larger than 30-40 dB in unnecessory.

I believe the secret of vinyl sound (why people love it) is the fact that mono signal is distorted differently from the channel difference signal due to the mechanical difference of stylus movement in vertical and horizontal directions. This means that stereophony modulates distortion and the resulting distortion is "spatialized". I have written a nyquist-plugin for Audacity using this idea to produce vinyl-like sound (when I make music).

[Mirror Image]

Well, I have to admit I didn't fully realize it was Decca until I the disc arrived. I didn't think about the label. I must have seen the label logo on the cover, but bells didn't ring in my head. Also, even Decca has good sound sometimes so you never know. The sound of this twofer (as for the symphonies) isn't particularly bad, just not as good as Leaper. Decca sound works much better on loudspeakers than headphones (spatial distortion). Someday I may try this twofer with loudspeakers (most of my listening is with headphones these days). I wonder what you would recommend now that you know I am not a die hard fan of Decca sound. Kuchar?

Well, that's understandable. I mean I personally have never had a lot of issues with Decca's audio quality through the years, but will freely admit that they, like any label, have made some missteps along the way. Honestly, I don't know Kuchar's Nielsen as well as I probably should, so I can't recommend it (even though I'm quite aware there are many here who do, in fact, enjoy his performances). My favorite cycle overall is Oramo's on BIS, but I know their recordings are quite expensive, so it might not be a first, second, or even third-choice for you.

[Karl Henning]

http://www.youtube.com/v/J8KeriVSVVE

[Mirror Image]

Ok here's the deal, I'm going to count to ten and then turn around and you're gonna give me directions and if I land in the right place.....then I might join the club 

(btw, I already love that Wind Quintet)

I'm not sure what to recommend you. I'm also not sure how familiar you are with Nielsen's symphonies and concerti, but these are the works I recommend you checking out. Listen to the symphonies in order to get a feel of how he developed as a composer as each symphony is a world of it's own but you'd never mistake who the composer is for a second. His stylistic fingerprints are all over the place.

[Mirror Image]

Here's a question for the other Nielsenites here, how's Douglas Bostock's cycle? I've read some mixed reviews on his set. Some enjoy it, some say it's underpowered, some complain about the audio quality, etc., so what's the lowdown? Recommended?

[71 dB]

Ok here's the deal, I'm going to count to ten and then turn around and you're gonna give me directions and if I land in the right place.....then I might join the club 

(btw, I already love that Wind Quintet)

Works to make you join the Nielsen club:

- Symphony No. 4, Op 29
- Clarinet Concerto, Op. 57
- Helios Overture, Op. 17

http://www.youtube.com/v/J8KeriVSVVE

This recording hasn't been done in vain! Good find Karl. 

Well, that's understandable. I mean I personally have never had a lot of issues with Decca's audio quality through the years, but will freely admit that they, like any label, have made some missteps along the way. Honestly, I don't know Kuchar's Nielsen as well as I probably should, so I can't recommend it (even though I'm quite aware there are many here who do, in fact, enjoy his performances). My favorite cycle overall is Oramo's on BIS, but I know their recordings are quite expensive, so it might not be a first, second, or even third-choice for you.

Well, I can live with Decca sound and sometimes it's even great (e.g. Aladdin Suite).

My problem with Blomstedt with symphonies 1 & 2 is the heavy Brahmsian feel and the style of recording doesn't help. I listened to Leaper's symphony 1 today to remind myself how it is and yes, it does not sound Brahmsian at all. Leaper has a more joyful and brighter feel that I find "nordic" and suitable for Nielsen's music. Blomstedt's Nielsen is "brown" while Leaper's is "yellow".

It seems that Blomstedt is much better with 4-6 so I might get the other twofer too. The first one was a great purchase for the mindblowingly good Aladdin Suite. Blomstedt made me really like the work, something Naxos completely fails to do.

I may consider Oramo because BIS has stellar sonics most of the time (even multichannel SACD!).

[Karl Henning]

Cross-post

The Opus 1!

http://www.youtube.com/v/iIhufkXFtEE

[Mirror Image]

Cross-post

The Opus 1!

http://www.youtube.com/v/iIhufkXFtEE

It's certainly a beauty.

[Madiel]

I'm going to do a chronological listen, though not relying on opus numbers. A couple of online versions of the newish CNW catalogue have information about dates.

[Karl Henning]

Sweet.

[Karl Henning]

All right! These have landed:

[prémont]

I have acquired Leaper's Espansiva. A very sympathetic reading, which I find beneficially lyrical and - as Poju writes - with a Nordic sound. A nice addition to my Nielsen library.

[71 dB]

All right! These have landed:

Great! Interested to hear your opinion Karl once you have given them a spin or two. 

I have acquired Leaper's Espansiva. A very sympathetic reading, which I find beneficially lyrical and - as Poju writes - with a Nordic sound. A nice addition to my Nielsen library.

Nice to hear that. 

[Parsifal]

Looks like I'm missing out on the Leaper love-fest. 

[Madiel]

I've only listened to about 20 minutes of this recording so far, on streaming, but oh my goodness.

[asin]B00WUFBRFA[/asin]
The sound quality is just SO good. I'd seen a couple of reviews commenting favourably on the quality and clarity of the singing, but it's just fantastic to have it jumping out of even my not especially impressive computer speakers.

I'm not at all an opera fan but I think I will be buying this.

[Moonfish]

I'm amazed that there are 41 pages (so far) focusing on Nielsen's works!!!!!! Astounding! I had no idea that he had such a following here at GMG!