The Nielsen Nexus

[Brian]

Meanwhile, I'll be over here listening to Chung's Espansiva for the first time.

[Brian]

Well, wow. Chung's recording is awesome. I think the primal, "rough" sound is a huge benefit - Chung's approach can be aggressive and headlong, and the BIS 80s sound setup makes it feel like the brass section is perched on your shoulder blasting into your ears. Result: just a super freakin' exciting performance. Definitely gonna be one of my all-time favorites.

Thanks, Sarge! I hope this is a fair trade of recommendations but it might well not be!

[Mirror Image]

Well, wow. Chung's recording is awesome. I think the primal, "rough" sound is a huge benefit - Chung's approach can be aggressive and headlong, and the BIS 80s sound setup makes it feel like the brass section is perched on your shoulder blasting into your ears. Result: just a super freakin' exciting performance. Definitely gonna be one of my all-time favorites.

Thanks, Sarge! I hope this is a fair trade of recommendations but it might well not be!

I've been praising Chung's performance for quite some time as well. It is awesome indeed. One of my favorite performances.

[Mirror Image]

Chung's one of my favorites. I own these. Favorites in bold. Oramo I haven't heard. Still debating whether, at my age, I need another Espansiva 

Rozhdestvensky    12:44  11:06  7:06  11:04
Schmidt              12:06  10:13  6:37   9:30
Horenstein            12:04   9:57   7:33   9:59
Saraste                 12:03   8:46   5:49   9:36
Schonwandt          11:44   9:34   6:21   9:36
Bernstein            11:37   9:50   6:26   9:28
Davis                    11:28   7:26   6:29   9:18
Gilbert                  11.24   9:12   6:36  10:03
Kuchar                11:19   9:41   6:35    9:16
Salonen               11:15   9:37   6:43  10:22
Chung                 11:07  10:00  6:41    9:17
Berglund               11:00   8:21   6:19   9:33
Frandsen             10:55   8:05   6:04   8:47
Bostock               10:37    9:14   6:14   9:39
Blomstedt             10:35    9:07   6:21   9:18


Sarge

Let's look at Oramo's times for the Espansiva:

Oramo                 11:23  9:17  6:41  10:10

[Sergeant Rock]

Remind me of some of the things you listen for in the magnificent Op.27?

The trumpet figurations (very rapid repeated notes) that drive the music rhythmically at various points in the first movement. In many recordings they're buried, sometimes even inaudible. And the trumpet tremolo (I think that's what it is) just before the waltz breaks out. Bernstein is superb here, you can hear it clearly at 5:53. Gilbert gave his trumpets a smoke break at that point...although he's not alone. Very few recordings make that effect really audible.

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

Thanks.  You realize, I do respect your ears!  And I entirely understand how even a detail or two can be a deal-breaker (hence the too-quiet horns in the HvK recording of the Shostakovich Op.93 kill that recording for me).

[Sergeant Rock]

Let's look at Oramo's times for the Espansiva:

Oramo                 11:23  9:17  6:41  10:10

Almost identical to Gilbert's timings...proving that overall speed does not make a performance.

Sarge

[Brian]

The trumpet figurations (very rapid repeated notes) that drive the music rhythmically at various points in the first movement. In many recordings they're buried, sometimes even inaudible. And the trumpet tremelo (I think that's what it is) just before the waltz breaks out. Bernstein is superb here, you can hear it clearly at 5:53. Gilbert gave his trumpets a smoke break at that point...although he's not alone. Very few recordings make that effect really audible.

Sarge

Just before the waltz breaks out - here Oramo gives the trumpets a big crescendo; at the beginning they are inaudible but they "slide" in.

'fraid I might prefer Chung...but I am a sucker for loud recordings where you don't need to turn the volume up. 

[Sergeant Rock]

Just before the waltz breaks out - here Oramo gives the trumpets a big crescendo; at the beginning they are inaudible but they "slide" in.

'fraid I might prefer Chung...but I am a sucker for loud recordings where you don't need to turn the volume up. 

Yeah, they had the recording amps cranked up to 11 on that one 

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Thanks.  You realize, I do respect your ears!  And I entirely understand how even a detail or two can be a deal-breaker (hence the too-quite horns in the HvK recording of the Shostakovich Op.93 kill that recording for me).

Another "small" detail in another work that really bothers me when I can't hear it is the col legno moment (only a few measures) before the climax of the first movement development in Mahler's Second. In every live performance I've heard this effect has been startlingly audible (literally so: I once saw a couple of blue hairs wake up in fright at that point  ) but very few recordings do it justice.

Sarge

[amw]

xpost

Which set of Nielsen piano music?









I already have Martin Roscoe on Hyperion, but am not totally satisfied with it.

[Karl Henning]

I've not heard any of them, and I promised my late father I should never offer an opinion on any recording I have not actually listened to 

I've heard Martin Roscoe in the Chaconne, and agree that it is not a first choice.

[TheGSMoeller]

Just ordered the Rozhdestvensky.

[asin]B0006AZPZY[/asin]

..should make a good contrast to my Blomstedt and Davis cycles. My thoughts on the Gilbert are not as harsh as some of you here. I ordered the 2nd/3rd disc from the set, and I like what I've heard, but it seems my positive thoughts are mostly with the musicians, I like the way the NYP sounds. I don't hear anything relavatory in Gilbert's take, so I find that aspect to be a little overrated. And this may be the only single from the set I order, but I have read good things about the concertos disc.

Revisiting these symphonies has been a blast. I remember listening to the Blomstedt cycle some 20 years ago, mainly focusing on the brass heavy moments. Now older, and perhaps slightly wiser, I'm hearing details in the music I missed before, especially with the 3rd symphony. The 3rd is a masterpiece, when it ends I feel as if I just finished a musical tour of the composer's soul. In fact, all 6 symphonies are great. Have always loved the 4th and 6th, and I'm getting to know the 5th much better.

[Karl Henning]

The trumpet figurations (very rapid repeated notes) that drive the music rhythmically at various points in the first movement. In many recordings they're buried, sometimes even inaudible. And the trumpet tremolo (I think that's what it is) just before the waltz breaks out. Bernstein is superb here, you can hear it clearly at 5:53.

Thanks for pointing this out!  It's exactly the sort of detail within a rich musical texture which can be elusive in even multiple hearings!  I know I have a score for the Espansiva, somewhere at home . . . high time I read it closely.

[Mirror Image]

Just ordered the Rozhdestvensky.

[asin]B0006AZPZY[/asin]

..should make a good contrast to my Blomstedt and Davis cycles. My thoughts on the Gilbert are not as harsh as some of you here. I ordered the 2nd/3rd disc from the set, and I like what I've heard, but it seems my positive thoughts are mostly with the musicians, I like the way the NYP sounds. I don't hear anything relavatory in Gilbert's take, so I find that aspect to be a little overrated. And this may be the only single from the set I order, but I have read good things about the concertos disc.

Revisiting these symphonies has been a blast. I remember listening to the Blomstedt cycle some 20 years ago, mainly focusing on the brass heavy moments. Now older, and perhaps slightly wiser, I'm hearing details in the music I missed before, especially with the 3rd symphony. The 3rd is a masterpiece, when it ends I feel as if I just finished a musical tour of the composer's soul. In fact, all 6 symphonies are great. Have always loved the 4th and 6th, and I'm getting to know the 5th much better.

Ah yes, the Celibidache of Nielsen symphony cycles. It definitely will be a contrast to those other sets. If you're thinking of getting a fourth cycle, then you can't go wrong with Oramo on BIS.

[Karl Henning]

. . . And the trumpet tremolo (I think that's what it is) just before the waltz breaks out. Bernstein is superb here, you can hear it clearly at 5:53.

Listening to the Kuchar, I wonder if that is flutter-tonguing in the trumpets . . . makes me want yet more to scare up the score, and see what the composer is looking for there . . . .

[Brian]

Listening to the Kuchar, I wonder if that is flutter-tonguing in the trumpets

My instinct is the same.

[TheGSMoeller]

How's Salonen's cycle? I keep reading positive reviews online but can't find any samples.

So far I have Blomstedt, Rozhdestvensky, 2 from Davis/LSO, 1 from Gilbert/NYP and 1 from Bernstein. I'm happy with what I have but I find each recording to bring out different nuances of the music, so naturally I'm tempted to continue exploring.

[Mirror Image]

How's Salonen's cycle? I keep reading positive reviews online but can't find any samples.

So far I have Blomstedt, Rozhdestvensky, 2 from Davis/LSO, 1 from Gilbert/NYP and 1 from Bernstein. I'm happy with what I have but I find each recording to bring out different nuances of the music, so naturally I'm tempted to continue exploring.

I still need to revisit Salonen's Nielsen, but, as I mentioned above, you should really check out Oramo's cycle. Also, Chung's performances are must-listens as well.

[Sergeant Rock]

Listening to the Kuchar, I wonder if that is flutter-tonguing in the trumpets . . . makes me want yet more to scare up the score, and see what the composer is looking for there . . . .

Yes, I'm confused about that point. I always thought it flutter-tonguing until I read Hurwitz who called it a tremolo. Looking at the definition of tremolo, it does fit. I don't know how either would be marked in the score so it would be useless for me to look. I'm hoping you can solve the riddle, Karl.

Sarge