Speaker and Headphone Choices for listening to Classical Music

[G. String]

What kind of speakers and headphones do you usually prefer? Neutral or smooth and warm (a little more bass)?

[North Star]

See here:
What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?

[G. String]

See here:
What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?

Thanks. Would you summarize which type people simply prefer, neutral or warm, for me, too?

[Brian]

Thanks. Would you summarize which type people simply prefer, neutral or warm, for me, too?

Everyone has different preferences, so it's not easy. I think I'm on the "warm" side, but there are a lot of folks who prefer more analytic sound. This even extends to record labels; a lot of people think Hyperion is the best at recording piano recitals, but I can't stand the Hyperion piano sound.

[The new erato]

I prefer equipment that sounds right an never think about whetjer it sounds warm or clinical. And (at least for speakers, headphones I hate) the result for a given setuo, results depends as much on (really; mostly on) room size, acoustic setup and speaker placement (and your own hearing and muusic selections) than on the equipment itself. But I don't like an overtly clinical sound, preferring a focus on soundstage and overall perspective rather than an overt focus on details. To me that is right.   

[71 dB]

headphones I hate

I believe you hate spatial distortion rather than headphones. Crossfeeding is the solution. 

[Mirror Image]

For headphones, I stand by the Sennheiser HD 598. A headphone that came strongly recommended to me by DavidW. I won't launch into how these headphones sound again, I gave a pretty decent description on the 'Headphones' thread in 'The Diner,' but let me just say I'll never wear another pair of headphones again and if anything were to happen to them, I'd replace them in a heartbeat.

[DavidW]

Most decent speakers measure flat... but the reflections off of room walls change the frequency response, enhancing some frequencies, attenuating others.  This makes it difficult to recommend speakers.  They have to be voiced for your room.

But I will say:

1. Place speakers so that tweeters are ear level.
2. Place speakers to be at least 2 feet from any wall but preferably 3 feet.
3. See manufacturer's website for proper toe in, usually it is not directed at your eyes, but instead directed at your ears, that is to say only slightly toed in.
4. Your chair/couch should also be removed from any wall by at least 2 feet but preferably 3 feet.
5. Do not place hard surfaces such as tables between you and your speakers (due to reflection).
6. Ensure the speakers are in front of (and not on par with) your equipment.  If possible put your equipment on the side wall instead.
7. Volume match speakers.

These steps are much more important than just tossing out large amounts of money on expensive speakers.  I didn't know about some of these until recently, and my acoustics are improved.  These changes are worth it and free to do.

With headphones Sennheiser HD 598, 600, 650 are great.  AKG K550 is great.  Beyerdynamics dt880 is also great.  Those headphones are all close to neutral, and very resolving of detail.  I agree with 71 dB that crossfeed helps create a more natural stereo sound since recordings are mixed for speakers and not headphones.  Crossfeed can be found on some headphone amps and as an add-on to foobar, a program for Windows.

[The new erato]

//

I believe you hate spatial distortion rather than headphones. Crossfeeding is the solution. 

No. I hate the claustrophobia of physically having them on my head and with a dedicated soundproofed listening room of 27 sq meters and big speakers, there fortunately is no reason I should love having them on either. Headphones can sound magnificent and natural (it seems plausible that cossfeeding is positive), but for longer listening sessions they make me desperate.

[G. String]

Everyone has different preferences, so it's not easy. I think I'm on the "warm" side, but there are a lot of folks who prefer more analytic sound. This even extends to record labels; a lot of people think Hyperion is the best at recording piano recitals, but I can't stand the Hyperion piano sound.

In this context you should imagine neutrality and warmth as similar to equalizer bands. Neutral is similar to flat and smooth and warm is similar to low-range upped a bit. For instance rock is best with V-Shaped bands, both low and high ranges enhanced but middle-range untouched. As it is obvious that psychoacoustics has a major role in speakers but this is very crucial for headphones. My experience is, seasoned classical music listeners who are interested in hifi almost exclusively prefer neutral headphones, such as Sennheiser HD598. I sometimes need more doublebass or cello.

[71 dB]

I hate the claustrophobia of physically having them on my head

Well, there are uncomfortable headphones as there are comfortable ones. Maybe you only think it's physically having them on your head,  when the spatial distortion is actually the main reason of discomfort?

And with a dedicated soundproofed listening room of 27 sq meters and big speakers, there fortunately is no reason I should love having them on either. Headphones can sound magnificent and natural (it seems plausible that cossfeeding is positive), but for longer listening sessions they make me desperate.

Well, you are lucky to have such a room for listening. Most people have neighbours and can't play loudspeakers loud all night long. Luckily my Sennheiser HD 598 headphones + a self-constructed audio amplifier driven headphone adapter with 6 crossfeed levels to choose from provide stunning sound quality* on any reasonable recording without driving my neighbours crazy.

* Yes, stunning. Distortion-free sound free of room interferencies and with a sound image similar to that of loudspeakers (depending the recording, of course). It's actually as if the sound was fed directly to my brain with wires. 

Most decent speakers measure flat... but the reflections off of room walls change the frequency response, enhancing some frequencies, attenuating others.  This makes it difficult to recommend speakers.  They have to be voiced for your room.

Many speakers measure flat on axis, but there's often discontinuity problems with power response (the amount of sound power radiated to all directions). This means that these speakers won't sound neutral (flat) in a room when the flat response on axis is "coloured" with not so "flat" reverberation.

But I will say:

1. Place speakers so that tweeters are ear level.
2. Place speakers to be at least 2 feet from any wall but preferably 3 feet.
3. See manufacturer's website for proper toe in, usually it is not directed at your eyes, but instead directed at your ears, that is to say only slightly toed in.
4. Your chair/couch should also be removed from any wall by at least 2 feet but preferably 3 feet.
5. Do not place hard surfaces such as tables between you and your speakers (due to reflection).
6. Ensure the speakers are in front of (and not on par with) your equipment.  If possible put your equipment on the side wall instead.
7. Volume match speakers.

Yeah, these are valid general rules, but one should always experiment, since you never know exactly what set up gives the best result. Also, most of the time people must compromize, unfortunately.

These steps are much more important than just tossing out large amounts of money on expensive speakers.  I didn't know about some of these until recently, and my acoustics are improved.  These changes are worth it and free to do.

Yep, acoustics is very important. Sound behaves in very complex ways, especially at low frequencies where room modes dominate. Loudpeakers just won't sound good if they are on granted "the best place in the house".

I agree with 71 dB that crossfeed helps create a more natural stereo sound since recordings are mixed for speakers and not headphones.  Crossfeed can be found on some headphone amps and as an add-on to foobar, a program for Windows.

Crossfeeders are easy and cheap to construct yourself if you can hold a soldering iron. Designing them is great fun! 

[jochanaan]

For headphones, I stand by the Sennheiser HD 598. A headphone that came strongly recommended to me by DavidW. I won't launch into how these headphones sound again, I gave a pretty decent description on the 'Headphones' thread in 'The Diner,' but let me just say I'll never wear another pair of headphones again and if anything were to happen to them, I'd replace them in a heartbeat.

Seconded. I'm not sure what model number my Senns are, but they're both very clear and very warm. None better. I actually had the covers replaced years ago.

[Ken B]

Seconded. I'm not sure what model number my Senns are, but they're both very clear and very warm. None better. I actually had the covers replaced years ago.

I have some N/C Senns. I probably need a vanilla pair, as the  unit is awkward, but the sound is certainly good. And very effective noise cancelling.

[Daverz]

//No. I hate the claustrophobia of physically having them on my head and with a dedicated soundproofed listening room of 27 sq meters and big speakers, there fortunately is no reason I should love having them on either. Headphones can sound magnificent and natural (it seems plausible that cossfeeding is positive), but for longer listening sessions they make me desperate.

I have a pair of AKG 401s that sit very lightly on the ears and never feel confining or uncomfortable.  They are constructed with a support band so that they do no put pressure on the ears.  These are an old model, and I don't know if the more recent replacement models are as comfortable.  Look for similar models with the support band.

More recently I've been using Sennheiser HD650s, which aren't as comfortable, but do sound great.

[DavidW]

btw even though they are not big league speakers like the audiophiles on this forum use, I really enjoy the Polk Audio Lsi bookshelves.  I bought them a bit over a year ago.  Unlike their entry level monitor speakers, they sound warm, mid-centric and never harsh. 

[Bogey]

btw even though they are not big league speakers like the audiophiles on this forum use, I really enjoy the Polk Audio Lsi bookshelves.  I bought them a bit over a year ago.  Unlike their entry level monitor speakers, they sound warm, mid-centric and never harsh.

What was your cost, David?

[The new erato]

Small speaksers can sound amazingly fine om acoustical music when not pushed to extremes of dynamics and bass. I've got a pair of Usher S 520 entry level bookshelf speakers:



in my cabin and they sound amazingly good with the right material. Same color too!

[Pat B]

Small speaksers can sound amazingly fine om acoustical music when not pushed to extremes of dynamics and bass.

Agree although I am in a different price range than you. My office has a pair of Mission 731i's (I found them used for around $100 on ebay). I never A-B'ed them, but I have been very happy with them.

[Kontrapunctus]

Sennheiser HD 800s are mercilessly revealing--just the way I like it! 

[Brian]

btw even though they are not big league speakers like the audiophiles on this forum use, I really enjoy the Polk Audio Lsi bookshelves.  I bought them a bit over a year ago.  Unlike their entry level monitor speakers, they sound warm, mid-centric and never harsh.

Maybe something like this is an option for me; I have a tiny apartment and if I pushed the couch and the speakers two feet out from their respective walls, I'd be able to sit on the couch and kick the speakers! That said, I don't know the first thing about these sound systems and what all parts are needed between the disc drive and the speakers themselves.