Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[jlaurson]

...familiar with Pollini's Chopin Nocturnes?  Your opinion?

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2007/01/great-pianists-great-expectations.html

[Bogey]

Not very close, I'm afraid. He has unfortunately only recorded 5 of the 32.

Thanks!

[Coopmv]

Thanks!

Morning, Bill.  It is a shame, as Moravec is unlikely to finish any Beethoven Sonatas project given his advanced age ... 

[Rod Corkin]

I'm thinking about buying a complete set of these sonatas. I already have a cheap 10 CD set with Schnabel and some individual sonatas by other pianists.
Now i'm looking for a set with good better sound quality than Schnabel.

Which one should i check? Gulda?Barenboim?
There is a set with Gulda on eloquence records and another on brilliant. Any differences on those two?

The last complete set on modern piano I bought was by Bernard Roberts, but that was years and years ago. If you open minded enough to consider fortepiano renditions (the only renditions I listen to these days) Ronald Brautigam is currently covering all the sonatas and has produced about 6 volumes so far. There are other fortepiano sets but they are out of the catalogue now. If you want to hear samples from the fortepiano sets there are many at my site.

[jlaurson]

Any of you Annie Fischer LvB Cycle Owners:

Could one of you give me the exact recording dates, by chance?

As far as I know she started in 1976... and still fuzzed around as late as 1992. But to what extend is that latter date meaningful? Studio work? Patching? Whole pieces recorded? Is the de facto finishing point of that cycle not much earlier?

Thanks & best,

jfl

[DavidRoss]

Jens--per the booklet notes with the Hungaroton set, work on the recordings began in the spring of 1977.  Those notes don't specify the final recording date, but do state that work on the recorded material continued until 1995, shortly after her death.  The method is of interest.  Per the notes:

She did not play as at a recital, that is a whole work at a time but, in the search for perfection, she broke up the work into small units which she than aimed to combine.  These days most performing artists have long abandoned such a method, preferring the impetus of performance to a perfection which is often accompanied by a certain sterility.  [...]  Work on the stored material ceased in the nineties, albeit minor repairs of a tchnical nature still proved necessary.  The final touches only took place in 1995, in connection with the present issue, after Annie Fischer had passed away.

[jlaurson]

Jens--per the booklet notes with the Hungaroton set, work on the recordings began in the spring of 1977.  Those notes don't specify the final recording date, but do state that work on the recorded material continued until 1995, shortly after her death.  The method is of interest.  Per the notes:

Thanks, much!

I had read something like that...

Pretty much leaves it impossible to venture what the exact time frame was, doesn't it? Maybe I'll leave it open-ended as "90s" for now.
At least I can correct the starting date.

Anyone know the recording date of this Jeno Jando disc (which I reckon must be the last of his Beethoven Sonata discs)?

BEETHOVEN: Piano Sonatas Nos. 14, 21 and 23     8.550294

Naxos' website does not provide, unfortunately.

Abdel Rahman El Bacha was 1990 - 1993 (this is based on the release dates) or did he start earlier?

[DavidRoss]

Thanks, much!

I had read something like that...

Pretty much leaves it impossible to venture what the exact time frame was, doesn't it? Maybe I'll leave it open-ended as "90s" for now.
At least I can correct the starting date.

You're welcome.  The means by which these recordings were produced should raise doubts about their validity as "performance documents," but that is a separate issue from their value as beloved interpretations.  Certainly it was an interesting experiment, carrying the splicing of different takes to the nth degree.  I'm not sure how much all this affects my personal response to the recordings, but don't doubt that it has some effect--along with stubborn resistance to idol worship, PR gimmickry, and following the herd.  To me the set is like many others by such diverse and gifted pianists like Brendel, Arrau, Buchbinder, Gulda, and so on--beautiful, compelling music, consistently well-played--remarkable achievements that I can admire but that just don't grab my soul the way that certain other pianists' cycles so often do.  YMMV, of course, as it should---after all, we're all at different places on the path, arriving from different starting points, and with a variety of different experiences en route that have shaped our perspectives and our responses.

[Brian]

Anyone know the recording date of this Jeno Jando disc (which I reckon must be the last of his Beethoven Sonata discs)?

BEETHOVEN: Piano Sonatas Nos. 14, 21 and 23     8.550294

The Jando cycle was commenced in 1987 with 8, 14, 21, and 23, so that is actually the first disc! The final recording was made in January 1989, of the Sonata No. 15 and a whole stack of WoO sonatas and fragments. These are recording dates, not release dates (which were 1992-94).

[jlaurson]

The Jando cycle was commenced in 1987 with 8, 14, 21, and 23, so that is actually the first disc! The final recording was made in January 1989, of the Sonata No. 15 and a whole stack of WoO sonatas and fragments. These are recording dates, not release dates (which were 1992-94).

PER-FECT! Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.

That makes the third batch (77-90):

Brendel II,
Binns (anyone know the beginning of this LP-only cycle? The cycle was finished by 1977, afaik.
Buchbinder [thanks for reminding me, DavidRoss! Nearly missed that one. Have you got recording dates for that one?]
Ashkenazy
Nikolayeva (again: anyone know when this was commenced? Finished in '83, if I am not mistaken.)
Barenboim II
Roberts
Jando
Arrau II


Edit P.S.  remembered about the Buchbinder right after shooting off my surprised response. I even have it in my excel file of complete cycles (except with very wrong dates).

61 cycles, excluding incompletes like Gieseking, Gilels, Gould, Kempff-pre-I and excluding under-way (or just finished, in the case of Schiff) cycles like:

Oppitz, Kodama, Schiff, Bräutigam, Pollini, Uchida, Hewitt, Korstick

[DavidRoss]

screeching breaks sound, followed by surprised chicken sound: baw-bawk baaaawk? Buchbinder has a LvB Sonata cycle? Do tell, because that one I have certainly missed, if there is one.

Yep.  A digital cycle on Teldec, recorded 1980-82, the first complete cycle I bought and still one of my faves, more classically "objective" than romantically "interpretive."  Long OOP--heck if I know why!  Two Amazon mkt sellers have used sets for $259.  Image below:

[Coopmv]

Yep.  A digital cycle on Teldec, recorded 1980-82, the first complete cycle I bought and still one of my faves, more classically "objective" than romantically "interpretive."  Long OOP--heck if I know why!  Two Amazon mkt sellers have used sets for $259.  Image below:

WarnerMusic may be re-issuing the set soon ...

[prémont]

,Nikolayeva (again: anyone know when this was commenced? Finished in '83, if I am not mistaken.)
,

You are. Her set was recorded live at the Moscow Conservatoire from january 1984 to april 1984, according to the booklet of the Scribendum release from 2004.

[jlaurson]

You are. Her set was recorded live at the Moscow Conservatoire from january 1984 to april 1984, according to the booklet of the Scribendum release from 2004.

Thank you very much! (Incidentally Jed Distler claims 1983, referring to her live Olympia cycle (same one, presumably, but issued piece-meal?). May well be where I got the information from in the first place... but any one know where the discrepancy might come from?)

I also read the same claim (Moscow, live, 83) as regards the Deutsche Schallplatten Berlin licenses (from the Olympia stuff). Perhaps Olympia used the wrong date? (Or perhaps Scribendium does?)

[prémont]

,I also read the same claim (Moscow, live, 83) as regards the Deutsche Schallplatten Berlin licenses (from the Olympia stuff). Perhaps Olympia used the wrong date? (Or perhaps Scribendium does?)

Well, the Scribendum notification looks very reliable, presenting individual dates for the recordings, e.g. Sonatas 1,2,3 & 4 recorded on the 10th of January 1984, Sonatas 5,6,7 & 8 on the 11th of January 1984. The cycle was, as I stated above, recorded live during a series of recitals containing exclusively the Beethoven Sonatas.The Scribendum release was of course licenced from Melodiya.

But the worst thing about the set is,that it is totally unlistenable, due to lots of wrong notes, and the fact, that she looses the thread all too often. Definitely not recommended.

[prémont]

Incidentally Jed Distler claims 1983..

Mind you, semi-professional and even professional reviewers are often wrong.

[George]

Beethoven Sonatas - A Survey of Complete Cycles
Part 2, 1967 - 1975

Just read your excellent writeup of Gulda's second set, Jens. I very much agree with what you write about his second traversal of the 32 sonatas. Like you, I find his set to be remarkably enjoyable, brisk and consistent. I also admire Backhaus's second set but consider Gulda's set to be my go-to set these days. This is something that changed recently, but Gulda's set has always impressed me from the very first listen. His technical finish and clear vision of each work is impressive.    

I look forward to reading about more cycles as you add info.

[jlaurson]

Just read your excellent writeup of Gulda's second set, Jens. I very much agree with what you write about his second traversal of the 32 sonatas. Like you, I find his set to be remarkably enjoyable, brisk and consistent. I also admire Backhaus's second set but consider Gulda's set to be my go-to set these days. This is something that changed recently, but Gulda's set has always impressed me from the very first listen. His technical finish and clear vision of each work is impressive.    

I look forward to reading about more cycles as you add info.

Don't get your hopes up, though.  

It's not intended to be a review survey... of the 70 cycles I only have a certain number and many I know nothing about, not even hearsay. It's just to show what's out there... be a one-stop for anyone interested in knowing their options and what they can get where. (Simplified through the four Amazon countries with links.)

It just happens so that I know a tad about the earlier, classic cycles... and Gulda--Beethoven in Tennis shoes--could not whiz by un-commented upon.  

Well, the Scribendum notification looks very reliable, presenting individual dates for the recordings, e.g. Sonatas 1,2,3 & 4 recorded on the 10th of January 1984, Sonatas 5,6,7 & 8 on the 11th of January 1984. The cycle was, as I stated above, recorded live during a series of recitals containing exclusively the Beethoven Sonatas.The Scribendum release was of course licenced from Melodiya.

But the worst thing about the set is,that it is totally unlistenable, due to lots of wrong notes, and the fact, that she looses the thread all too often. Definitely not recommended.

I might go with 83-84, just to be on the save side. :-) Democracy, rather than meritocracy, of facts. Perhaps she played a few notes in December, after all. I take it that she didn't repeat the cycle twice within so short a time; once Melodiya recording, once Olympia (who probably licensed it from Melodiya??)?

[jlaurson]

Does anyone have cover-art for some of the OOP cycles?

For one of the Robert Riefling (Valois) LPs specifically? Or for one of the Malcolm Binns LPs. (Was that ever out as an LP set??)

Beethoven Sonatas - A Survey of Complete Cycles
Part 3, 1977 - 199019841989


Alfred Brendel II
1970 - 1977 - Philips (analog)

   Malcolm Binns
19?? - 1977 (?) - L'Oiseau-Lyre

   Annie Fischer
1976 - 1978* - Hungaroton
(When I speak of a "cult following" here, yes, that's you, GMG-Fischerites.  )

   John Lill
1975 - 1980 - ASV (Brilliant, Sanctuary)

   Vladimir Ashkenazy
1971 - 1981 - Decca

   Rudolf Buchbinder
1979 - 1981 - Telefunken / Telarc

   Daniel Barenboim II
1981 - 1984 - Deutsche Grammophon

   Tatiana Nikolayeva
1984 - Melodyia (Olympia (UK), DS Berlin, Scribendium)

   Bernard Roberts
1981 - 1984 - Nimbus

   Jenő Jandó
1987 - 1989 - Naxos

   Claudio Arrau II
1962* / 1984 - 1990 - Philips

Jenő Jandó
1987 - 1989 - Naxos

Nevermind... I've had an excel-file SNAFU. I'll have to redo that list for lack of inclusion of Barenboim and Lill. Will give Arrau and Jando the boot to make room.

Update: Now it's better. I hope.

Update: Added Jando to get to 1989 and be able to start in 1990 with the next batch. That's when things will start getting complicated, in any case. No cycle finished between 1984 and 1989, though??? Shocking.
   

Any corrections (on dates, for example, and preferably, maybe without attitude) most welcome.

[DavidRoss]

Any corrections (on dates, for example, and preferably, maybe without attitude) most welcome.