Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[SonicMan46]

Did you see my reply below that article?  0:)

No, did not scroll down fall enough to see if replying was an option - your response is certainly longer than the original! 

[George]

No, did not scroll down fall enough to see if replying was an option - your response is certainly longer than the original! 

[Antoine Marchand]

... your response is certainly longer than the original! 

... and by far more intelligent, even when it avoids to be sarcastic. BTW, the another replies are not inferior to the original article. 

[George]

... and by far more intelligent, even when it avoids to be sarcastic.

I thank you, Antoine! I tried my best to be civil.

[Todd]

Who is the Greatest Interpreter of Beethoven's Music?

Brief, conventional, and inaccurate (Barenboim has recorded three cycles, after all).  Yawn.  I always wonder how many cycles people listen to before compiling a list of the "greatest", however one could determine that.

The more I listen to Brautigam, the more I think he deserves to be ranked with the best. I like his aggressive style.

I have the opposite reaction.

[jlaurson]

Brief, conventional, and inaccurate (Barenboim has recorded three cycles, after all).  Yawn.  I always wonder how many cycles people listen to before compiling a list of the "greatest", however one could determine that.
Re: Brautigam: I have the opposite reaction.

I agree. What a shitty piece of re-hashing stereotypes, cliches, and conventional wisdom--spiced up with inaccuracies and meaningless chatter. (Kempff's mono cycle messy? WTF? Compared to Pollini. Maybe. And then the "Schnabel insights, unsurpassed" blah blah blah. You don't need to listen to a single note to write any of that. He is (arguably) right, however, in plagiarizing the fact that Schnabel's recordings are best gotten on Naxos.

p.s. Count me among those who are continuously amazed at how great the Brautigam LvB Sonata cycle sounds. What a tremendous achievement; a victory for the forte-piano, which sounds ghastly all too often on other recordings.

[Novi]

Err, guys, it is the Telegraph, after all...

[Clever Hans]

I have the opposite reaction.

Well, I didn't offer any specifics, but I am curious to hear yours. What are his weaknessess, do you think he's superficial? Whom do you prefer in this vein, Gulda?
Actually, when I first started listening to Brautigam, I loved him, but part of it was because of the fortepianos. Then I liked him a little less, for his lack of overt rumination and poetry, I suppose. Now I like his directness, steadfastness, and still the fortepianos.

Some positives for Brautigam, I think:
-Technique is never lacking
-Not genteel, I can hear Serkin's influence
-He brings real force and bravura to his playing when called for, to a level unlike Goode and definitely Paul Lewis, but he still brings awareness of Beethoven's classicism.
-It's a valid interpretation to play Beethoven's pieces aggressively, without too much pondering or romanticizing, and sometimes perhaps with abandon.
-Brautigam seems not be contradicting Czerny's recommendations on the sonatas. To play in time, and never drag. But with requisite technique and lightness and bravura in supply.   
-Most of the sonatas were written when Beethoven was less or not much older than 30 years. Beethoven's symphonies have the most fervid metronome markings, up to and including the 9th, as do many of his string quartets. This suggests that he may have preferred playing without too much lingering. 
-Instruments

Sure, I like Kempff's poetry, Fischer's intensity, Backhaus' seriousness, Richter's command, and Serkin's no b.s. drama. Yet I think Brautigam has many admirable qualities too and isn't at all lacking power.   

[George]

Brief, conventional, and inaccurate (Barenboim has recorded three cycles, after all). 

Yeah, that was my first thought too.

[Todd]

What are his weaknessess, do you think he's superficial? Whom do you prefer in this vein, Gulda?

I don't think Brautigam is superficial, but he's something of a one-trick pony.  His speed, clean articulation, and intensity - ie, aggressiveness - work well in the early sonatas, but he doesn't offer enough in later works.  Starting with Op 28, and especially with Op 31 and later, he sounds too monochrome, too limited.  His 31/1 is too dry, too intense, for instance.  His most recent disc shows that he hasn't adopted any notable chanes in the late works.  I had high hopes for the cycle, and still like the earlier works, but for me, a great cycle must be better at the end of the 32 than the beginning.

In terms of a similar approach that I find more to my liking, yes, Gulda is the man.  Had Hungerford completed his cycle, he'd be the second man, if you will.  Brautigam, not so much.

[Bunny]

Found this today and figured that I would post it here:

Who is the Greatest Interpreter of Beethoven's Music?

Who is Damian Thompson?  Does he have any musical background?  Why have I never, ever, ever, heard about him? 

[Coopmv]

Who is Damian Thompson?  Does he have any musical background?  Why have I never, ever, ever, heard about him?

I would hope he has the proper credentials as a music critic if he writes for the Telegraph ...

[Clever Hans]

I don't think Brautigam is superficial, but he's something of a one-trick pony.  His speed, clean articulation, and intensity - ie, aggressiveness - work well in the early sonatas, but he doesn't offer enough in later works.  Starting with Op 28, and especially with Op 31 and later, he sounds too monochrome, too limited.  His 31/1 is too dry, too intense, for instance.  His most recent disc shows that he hasn't adopted any notable chanes in the late works.  I had high hopes for the cycle, and still like the earlier works, but for me, a great cycle must be better at the end of the 32 than the beginning.

In terms of a similar approach that I find more to my liking, yes, Gulda is the man.  Had Hungerford completed his cycle, he'd be the second man, if you will.  Brautigam, not so much.

I will have to check out Hungerford.

But oy, are we listening to the same discs? I like Brautigam on the earlier sonatas, but I think he catches fire later on repeatedly in the nicknamed sonatas. Op. 27/1 is great. Op. 27/2 presto agitato is almost flawless, not overdone, as is often the case. Except for the scherzo, the Pastorale is pretty darn excellent, and benefits from the tone of the fortepiano. Maybe the Tempest isn't as impressive as Richter's, but op 31/3 has extraordinary touch and sense of wit, and seems informed by his many years playing Haydn and Mozart.

Disc 6, so much variety exploited, and the Graf copy is a wonderful instrument.
Waldstein is fantastic, particularly the rondo. Op. 79 Andante has so much feeling. The Appassionata is definitely one of best I have ever heard, in terms of pacing and tonal dimension. It sounds like 4 different instruments fused together, in a good way.

On 7, Les Adieux, Das Wiedersehen is pretty awesome, how it picks up from the previous movement. While I think Rudolf Serkin's may be my favorite Hammerklavier in its humanity, Brautigam's has tons of rhythmic personality not found in other versions. 

[Coopmv]

I don't think Brautigam is superficial, but he's something of a one-trick pony.  His speed, clean articulation, and intensity - ie, aggressiveness - work well in the early sonatas, but he doesn't offer enough in later works.  Starting with Op 28, and especially with Op 31 and later, he sounds too monochrome, too limited.  His 31/1 is too dry, too intense, for instance.  His most recent disc shows that he hasn't adopted any notable chanes in the late works.  I had high hopes for the cycle, and still like the earlier works, but for me, a great cycle must be better at the end of the 32 than the beginning.

In terms of a similar approach that I find more to my liking, yes, Gulda is the man.  Had Hungerford completed his cycle, he'd be the second man, if you will.  Brautigam, not so much.

I thought not long ago I saw some posts singing Brautigam praises in a big way.  While I do not own any of his recordings, I was curious. 

[Bunny]

I would hope he has the proper credentials as a music critic if he writes for the Telegraph ...

Actually, after I posted that I googled the man.  The only references to his writings that I could find were about religion.  He has a blog on the Telegraph and his academic background is in history and religion.   I don't think I will take his music criticism too seriously.  I suppose he just decided to post his particular preferences there the same way I might post my preferences here.

[Coopmv]

Actually, after I posted that I googled the man.  The only references to his writings that I could find were about religion.  He has a blog on the Telegraph and his academic background is in history and religion.   I don't think I will take his music criticism too seriously.  I suppose he just decided to post his particular preferences there the same way I might post my preferences here.

An academic background in history and religion is not exactly that out of line with being a music critic IMO ...

[Herman]

Nice riposte, George. You went for the juggler 

Sarge

having nothing to add about LvB's 32 (I hardly ever listen to this stuff) I do want to point out this is unfair to the juggling profession. It's jugular.

[Coopmv]

Yeah, that was my first thought too.

George,  IIRC, you do not really have a very high opinion on the set by Barenboim ...

[DarkAngel]

Brautigam is moving up the piano forte line as Beethoven sonata series gets into later sonatas and Beethoven would have access to more advanced upgraded instruments........fortunately the booklets detail this and provide photos.

Volume 1-5 use a replica 1802 Walter fortepiano
Volume 6,7 use replica 1819 Graf fortepiano

Perhaps another keyboard to finish set, we shall see..............

I also really like Brautigam set to date, and even if it is not your very favorite versions important to have  at least some of the set using the keyboards Beethoven himself composed them on, I have  not heard any other fortepiano Beethoven sonatas that surpass Brautigam's work (although Bunny has begged to check out Komen)

[Bunny]

I will have to check out Hungerford.

But oy, are we listening to the same discs? I like Brautigam on the earlier sonatas, but I think he catches fire later on repeatedly in the nicknamed sonatas. Op. 27/1 is great. Op. 27/2 presto agitato is almost flawless, not overdone, as is often the case. Except for the scherzo, the Pastorale is pretty darn excellent, and benefits from the tone of the fortepiano. Maybe the Tempest isn't as impressive as Richter's, but op 31/3 has extraordinary touch and sense of wit, and seems informed by his many years playing Haydn and Mozart.

Disc 6, so much variety exploited, and the Graf copy is a wonderful instrument.
Waldstein is fantastic, particularly the rondo. Op. 79 Andante has so much feeling. The Appassionata is definitely one of best I have ever heard, in terms of pacing and tonal dimension. It sounds like 4 different instruments fused together, in a good way.

On 7, Les Adieux, Das Wiedersehen is pretty awesome, how it picks up from the previous movement. While I think Rudolf Serkin's may be my favorite Hammerklavier in its humanity, Brautigam's has tons of rhythmic personality not found in other versions.

I think Brautigam's cycle is excellent and I especially love the 6th volume with the Waldstein and Appassionata.  In fact, that Waldstein is probably the gem of the collection.