Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[AndyD.]

Sometimes one interpretation just moves us, and the others don't, as least not as much. I've never been moved by LvB's op. 59, 1 or op. 132 as much as by the Borodin String Quartet's interpretation. And Pollini's late piano set just knocks me out every time. I get profoundly moved whenever I hear his interpretation of the Hammerklavier adagio in particular.

But that's just me. Doesn't matter what you like best, you like it! It is always a great idea to keep an open mind though.

[North Star]

. And Pollini's late piano set just knocks me out every time. I get profoundly moved whenever I hear his interpretation of the Hammerklavier adagio in particular.

But that's just me.

No it isn't.

[Brian]

I'll keep that in mind...thanks! Where have you landed these days, Brian?

I'm just north of SA in the Hill Country, but I'm trying my darndest to escape the parental nest. Wasn't on GMG since Thursday because I was traveling for two interviews...

[George]

Doesn't matter what you like best, you like it!

This is what I was trying to say. If I love something, I really don't care if anyone loves it (and if they don't love it, I don't find it puzzling because different people like different things.) My opinion of that thing I love isn't strengthened by someone else liking it, any more than it is weakened by someone else not liking it. This is one of the things that makes music special, ones specific (and individual) taste.

[George]

It is always a great idea to keep an open mind though.

Yes, I would hope that an open mind would precede the opinion one has for something.

[Gurn Blanston]

This is what I was trying to say. If I love something, I really don't care if anyone loves it (and if they don't love it, I don't find it puzzling because different people like different things.) My opinion of that thing I love isn't strengthened by someone else liking it, any more than it is weakened by someone else not liking it. This is one of the things that makes music special, ones specific (and individual) taste.

It isn't people who praise what they like that bother me. I do it myself sometimes. It's people who denigrate what they (think) they don't like who tend to irritate me. They even make me lose my grip from time to time.... 0:)

[AndyD.]

It isn't people who praise what they like that bother me. I do it myself sometimes. It's people who denigrate what they (think) they don't like who tend to irritate me. They even make me lose my grip from time to time.... 0:)

Sometimes music is just SO personal...but I wonder if that's one of the thing we love most about it.

[George]

Sometimes music is just SO personal...but I wonder if that's one of the thing we love most about it.

The thing is, and I recall speaking to Bruce about this one day, it can become so personal that one's identity becomes tied to their opinion. 

[Mandryka]

What I can't understand is why some folk seem to need others to enjoy their favorites. Why isn't enough that you love them?

Because listening isn't really about enjoyment. It's active. It involves focussing on some things rather than others, and it involves  appraising what you hear.

Both of these things require a community, a shared form of life. You have to understand what to focus on, and how to apply the value concepts in new cases.

These are Wittgenstinean ideas.

[DavidRoss]

I'm just north of SA in the Hill Country, but I'm trying my darndest to escape the parental nest. Wasn't on GMG since Thursday because I was traveling for two interviews...

Ha! I have family west of New Braunfels. We'll be in the area late Oct early Nov. PM me if you've any interest in meeting. And good luck with the interviews!

No it isn't.

It isn't people who praise what they like that bother me. I do it myself sometimes. It's people who denigrate what they (think) they don't like who tend to irritate me. They even make me lose my grip from time to time.... 0:)

Especially when they denigrate Haydn ... or Beethoven's 9th!

The thing is, and I recall speaking to Bruce about this one day, it can become so personal that one's identity becomes tied to their opinion. 

Yep. Like the kids wearing their Nine Inch Nails t-shirts ... or Oakland Raiders fans under any circumstances!

These are Wittgenstinean ideas.

"A poem should not mean
But be."
~Archibald MacLeish

Edit: Ack! Corrected typo in MacLeish!

[George]

Because listening isn't really about enjoyment. It's active. It involves focussing on some things rather than others, and it involves  appraising what you hear.

Both of these things require a community, a shared form of life. You have to understand what to focus on, and how to apply the value concepts in new cases.

These are Wittgenstinean ideas.

But none of what you say requires others to enjoy (or perceive) what you do.

[trung224]

  George, I want to ask. Who Gilels you prefer when he plays Beethoven, the young or the old ?

[johndoe21ro]

Regarding the things that have been said 'upstairs'... If you like Beethoven and you like his sonatas, you should try to find your favorite cycle. It's like a duty, from my point of view. Nobody heard all the interpreters, nobody even knows all of them. Sometimes an article, a friend, an accidental audition opens your eyes. In order to have a favourite Beethoven sonata player, you have to listen to some of them. I don't want to assert my favorite cycle to anyone. I just wanted to give a hint to someone interested. He or she may find a lot of enjoyment in... Goode, let's say. Goode is there and might put a smile on your face. That's all.

[George]

  George, I want to ask. Who Gilels you prefer when he plays Beethoven, the young or the old ?

I've yet to do a comparison of the two across the board, but the youthful, burn-your-block-down early Appassionata in the green Brilliant box bests the DG one. Each period has it's advantages and I wouldn't want to be without either. Gilels was a special pianist.

[Gurn Blanston]

Especially when they denigrate Haydn ... or Beethoven's 9th!

They wouldn't dare! Those bastards!   

[Verena]

Because listening isn't really about enjoyment. It's active. It involves focussing on some things rather than others, and it involves  appraising what you hear.

Both of these things require a community, a shared form of life. You have to understand what to focus on, and how to apply the value concepts in new cases.

These are Wittgenstinean ideas.

That's a  very interesting extension of Wittgenstein's ideas.

[DavidRoss]

Gilels was a special pianist.

Something we can agree on unequivocally. Especially regarding his Beethoven.

[Mandryka]

But none of what you say requires others to enjoy (or perceive) what you do.

Take a concept that you hear in internet forums a lot -- fiery. I remember reading someone saying that Badura skoda in the Hammerklavier I "invested it with
more speed than fire " (someone on rmcr)

Presumably what's going on there is the application of the concept to a new instance -- and the point of the conversation is to check the perception with others.
After all fire is a pretty complicated evaluative idea. It would be easy to get it wrong. Or rather to apply it in a way that the community of users/speakers, including the tastesetters, can't agree with.

I've had a similar argument about whether Annie Fischer/Sawalich in Mozart PC 21 is tragic or not, and I remember one here about whether some cpt in Art of Fugue was played joyfully by Rubsam. Someone said no, and I went back and refined the application of the concept. All valuable stuff for developing acuity.

So no I disagree -- you do need other people to perceive what you do. At least when the judgments are less subjective than just reports about the listener's states of mind (I like, I don't like)  There's no such thing as a private language.

[prémont]

What I can't understand is why some folk seem to need others to enjoy their favorites. Why isn't enough that you love them?

No surprise, that it is nice to share ones favorites, but of course one can enjoy an interpretation which is not commonly approved in this forum.

[prémont]

My favourite interpretation of Beethoven's Piano Sonatas is Richard Goode's box from Nonesuch Records (1993). The power of Goode's playing,  the beauty, the subtlety of control, the amazingly wide tonality, the great dynamic range, the freshness, the precission, the sureness, the imagination and the empathy are overwhelming. Don't feel free to pick the winner until you listen to Goode. He is simply too good...

P.S. Alfred Brendel should be tried too (Decca 2011).

I agree about Brendel - whom I find much better than his reputation when it is about Beethoven, but I find Goode to be too mainstream and unimaginative. I can mention at least 40 sets I prefer to Goode´s.