Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[aquablob]

Garrick Ohlsson (will wait for box)

Do we know if a box is forthcoming? Ohlsson's set is high on my wish list of complete cycles because I saw him play Opp. 109, 110, and 111 several years back and was quite taken with his playing.

I'm also eager to hear Angela Hewitt's cycle, but I think I'll hold off until she completes it. I enjoy her Bach and Ravel.

[Mandryka]

I know, I have been remiss in my duties.




I include two incomplete cycles in my count (Gilels and Gieseking/Tahra) since they are close to complete.  I'm at the point now where it's almost easier to list the currently complete cycles I don't own than the ones I do own.  Below are the cycles I have yet to obtain, in rough order of interest.  If need be, I may obtain Riefling and PBS 1 on vinyl.


Robert Riefling
Paul Badura-Skoda 1 (Westminster)
Takahiro Sonoda 2 (expensive)
Claudio Arrau 2 (Philips, incomplete)
Walter Gieseking (EMI, incomplete)
Garrick Ohlsson (will wait for box)
Mari Kodama (will wait for box)
Michael Houstoun (got some on MP3; need the real deal)
Kazune Shimizu
Tatiana Nikolayeva
Peter Roesel
Robert Taub
Daniela Varinska
Shoko Sugitani
Malcolm Binns (is it complete?)
Michael Steinberg (gone forever?)
Robert Benz (gone forever?)
Gotthard Kladetzky (gone forever?)
Malcolm Bilson, et al (not too interested in many pianists for a cycle)

I didn't know that Badura Skoda's Westminster was complete. I have just three sonatas.

Arrau 1960s Philips is Arrau 2 really. Arrau 1 is the incomplete one from EMI, which many (most?) people prefer above all his Beethoven recordings (not me). The late recordings which appreared as Arrau Heritage is Arrau 3. I didn't know (had forgotten?) that that late cycle was incomplete.

I have all the Arraus, and the Tatiana Nikolayeva. I honestly don't think you're missing much by not having the Arrau 3.  I've only dipped into the Nikolayeva, but I thought it was terribly disappointing. Her Op106 is possibly the worst Beethoven record I've ever heard. Arrau 3 isn't ever as spontaneous as Arrau 2 (1960s Philips)  can sometimes be. You didn't like Arrau 2 much though, did you?

I also have all the Gieseking EMI. Recommended, despite some low points there were some memorable high points. I got it after you put me on to that wonderful op 110.  I must revisit that one.

[Parsifal]

I'm also eager to hear Angela Hewitt's cycle, but I think I'll hold off until she completes it. I enjoy her Bach and Ravel.

The next installment (the 4th) is to be released in December.  I have the previous volumes, so it is too late for me to wait for the box. 

[Parsifal]

Arrau 1960s Philips is Arrau 2 really. Arrau 1 is the incomplete one from EMI, which many (most?) people prefer above all his Beethoven recordings (not me). The late recordings which appreared as Arrau Heritage is Arrau 3. I didn't know (had forgotten?) that that late cycle was incomplete.

I don't think it is reasonable to refer to scattered recordings of ~10 of the 32 sonatas made over 15 years a "cycle."

[Todd]

Todd--you should get Igor Tchetuev's cycle ( through 6 volumes so far) on Caro Mitis

I've read uniformly good things here and elsewhere on Tchetuev.  I'll probably wait to see if a cycle comes out before buying.

Do we know if a box is forthcoming?

I don't know for certain, but I have to think one will be issued at some point, though not at bargain price.

You didn't like Arrau 2 much though, did you?

I very much enjoy it, putting it in my 'second tier' – ie, not top ten, but still well above average.  (After I'm done with my current three cycle binge, I may prep a list.)  How many sonatas did Arrau record on EMI?  My understanding is that it was less than half, which wouldn't be a cycle for me.  I don't have hard and fast rules, but it should certainly be well over half before considering it a cycle or set.

[Parsifal]

I very much enjoy it, putting it in my 'second tier' – ie, not top ten, but still well above average.  (After I'm done with my current three cycle binge, I may prep a list.)  How many sonatas did Arrau record on EMI?  My understanding is that it was less than half, which wouldn't be a cycle for me.  I don't have hard and fast rules, but it should certainly be well over half before considering it a cycle or set.

By my reckoning, 7 (twice), 14, 18, 21 (twice), 22, 23, 26, 28, 31, 32.  For Decca he did 8 and 29, and re-recorded several of the ones he did for EMI.

The Arrau recording I really want to get my hands on is his EMI recording of Debussy's pour le piano, recorded March 29, 1949 (Référence Columbia U.S 78 tours 72886-88D) which I have on a beat-up Columbia 7" 33 1/3 rpm vinyl disc that I paid 50 cents for.

[Todd]

By my reckoning, 7 (twice), 14, 18, 21 (twice), 22, 23, 26, 28, 31, 32.  For Decca he did 8 and 29, and re-recorded several of the ones he did for EMI.

That's definitely not a cycle.  I don't count the 18 sonata set by Richter I just picked up as a cycle, so even fewer just doesn't seem right to me.

[Parsifal]

That's definitely not a cycle.  I don't count the 18 sonata set by Richter I just picked up as a cycle, so even fewer just doesn't seem right to me.

Personally, calling a group of recordings a "cycle" implies that there was a conscious intention to produce a complete set of recordings in some genre.  Even if by some miracle Pollini manages to record all of the Beethoven Piano Sonatas before he kicks it, I would hesitate to call it a "cycle" (although I suppose I would be in the minority).
 

[Mandryka]

I don't think it is reasonable to refer to scattered recordings of ~10 of the 32 sonatas made over 15 years a "cycle."

OK It's probably right, what you say.

[prémont]

I didn't know that Badura Skoda's Westminster was complete. I have just three sonatas.

Arrau 1960s Philips is Arrau 2 really. Arrau 1 is the incomplete one from EMI, which many (most?) people prefer above all his Beethoven recordings (not me). The late recordings which appreared as Arrau Heritage is Arrau 3. I didn't know (had forgotten?) that that late cycle was incomplete.

I have all the Arraus, and the Tatiana Nikolayeva. I honestly don't think you're missing much by not having the Arrau 3.  I've only dipped into the Nikolayeva, but I thought it was terribly disappointing. Her Op106 is possibly the worst Beethoven record I've ever heard. Arrau 3 isn't ever as spontaneous as Arrau 2 (1960s Philips)  can sometimes be. You didn't like Arrau 2 much though, did you?

I also have all the Gieseking EMI. Recommended, despite some low points there were some memorable high points. I got it after you put me on to that wonderful op 110.  I must revisit that one.

I find it difficult to chose between Arrau 2 and 3. Yes, Arrau 2 seems more spontaneous, but Arrau 3 has got an air of an old mans wisdom, which I find very gripping.

Tatiana Nicolayeva´s live set is dispensable. There are so many lapses of memory, which completely spoil the musical statement.

Gieseking´s playing is in both sets often so depressing earthbound, that I wonder, Why I acquired them both. CDCDCD I suppose.

[Mandryka]

I find it difficult to chose between Arrau 2 and 3. Yes, Arrau 2 seems more spontaneous, but Arrau 3 has got an air of an old mans wisdom, which I find very gripping.

Tatiana Nicolayeva´s live set is dispensable. There are so many lapses of memory, which completely spoil the musical statement.

Gieseking´s playing is in both sets often so depressing earthbound, that I wonder, Why I acquired them both. CDCDCD I suppose.

Let me know where you  hear this wisdom in the last Arrau set and I'll relisten. I'm trying to find my notes on the Gieseking EMI, with no success. I remember there were about 4 sonatas which I thought had somethings special about them. I've never really explored the earlier cycle.

By the way, this came in the post yesterday. So far I've just listened to the first two  op 2s, I thought Op 2/2 was pretty special.

[aquablob]

"Complete cycle" = all 32

"Incomplete cycle" = no more than 5 sonatas are missing, since that gets us Gilels

"Partial cycle" = more than 5 are missing, but at least half are present (Gould, Solomon, Hungerford, Serkin)

I'd say that at least one of the following conditions must be met for "cycle" status:

1. The pianist conceived of the project as a cycle on some level
2. The recordings were all made within a reasonable span of time (say, 10 or 15 years).


What say yous?

[aquablob]

Pollini qualifies as a cycle ("incomplete," soon to be "complete") by Condition #1.

Arrau's pre-1960s recordings don't qualify as a cycle because fewer than half of the sonatas are present.

[Todd]

1. The pianist conceived of the project as a cycle on some level
2. The recordings were all made within a reasonable span of time (say, 10 or 15 years).

The intention seems clear enough, but the timeline seems arbitrary.  Louis Lortie clearly intended to record the cycle, but it took more than 15 years (I think).  Pollini will probably complete the cycle, and it seems difficult to think that if he does it will be coincidental.  Who cares if it took 40 years?


EDIT: I saw that you went with one condition, not both.  We're on the same page.

[Brian]

What say yous?

I say you misspelled "y'all"

Also I like your criteria.

[Madiel]

Can something become intended as a cycle partway through?

I'm recalling Rachmaninov, who after he'd written a bunch of preludes noticed that they were all in different keys, and decided to write another set of preludes to fill in the gaps and make 24.

[aquablob]

Can something become intended as a cycle partway through?

I'm recalling Rachmaninov, who after he'd written a bunch of preludes noticed that they were all in different keys, and decided to write another set of preludes to fill in the gaps and make 24.

We were really talking about recorded cycles of a corpus, and in that context my answer to your question would be yes (covered by the lenient "on some level" qualifier in Condition 1). So Pollini's recordings of Beethoven's piano sonatas qualify even though he probably had no intention of recording a cycle when he first recorded the late sonatas way back when.

About a composed cycle, I'd still answer yes.

[Bogey]

Let me know where you  hear this wisdom in the last Arrau set and I'll relisten. I'm trying to find my notes on the Gieseking EMI, with no success. I remember there were about 4 sonatas which I thought had somethings special about them. I've never really explored the earlier cycle.

By the way, this came in the post yesterday. So far I've just listened to the first two  op 2s, I thought Op 2/2 was pretty special.

Where did you land this beauty?

[Mandryka]

Where did you land this beauty?

hmv.jp

[Bogey]

hmv.jp

Link?  and of course, thanks!