Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Holden]

Would welcome any comments on a guy called Shisei Hanai on Spotify. There are three beethoven CDs. What I've heard so far, I think he's fantastic.  Have just been listening to him floor it through 31(3)(IV) while in total control and with lots of expressive detail.

Listening now to the Waldstein CD. Just wondering whose bathroom the recording was made in. Maybe it's just the Spotify transfer but the echo is extreme. Apart from that the first movement sounds good.

EDIT:

One thing I believe every good LvB pianist should have is a strong left hand and this appears to be something that Hanai lacks. The further I got into the Waldstein the more I was hearing an indistinct bass line, almost slurred in places. Now that might be down to the quality of the recording but I don't think so. I tested this out with the last mvt of 31/3 and got an even stronger impression that while the notes were there, and accurate, there was nothing happening with them. An almost perfunctory, in the background, quality. Listening to the first movement of Op 13 has not changed my mind in any way.

[Mandryka]

Pienaar's 10/3 made me prick up my ears, this guy's got ideas. Like Gould had ideas.

He hasn't got Gould's sense of fun though. Shame.


The tone is transparent and ugly. Maybe ugly's good - stops it from being too romantic, sentimental, smooth. I dunno, I'm trying to get my head around what has probably been a deliberate artistic discision about timbre.

What did a christofori sound like?

[Todd]

Pienaar's 10/3 made me prick up my ears, this guy's got ideas. Like Gould had ideas.

He hasn't got Gould's sense of fun though. Shame.

You need to listen to other sonatas, because Pienaar definitely has a sense of fun in other sonatas.  I'm not sure 10/3 is the funnest sonata.

Sound improves in the late sonatas, which were recorded in 2014, but as recorded, Pienaar does not have a particularly beautiful tone most of the time.

[Mandryka]

OK Todd, I'll cherry pick some more.

In the first movement of the Pastoral I was struck by the rapid and unpredictable changes of mood and texture. like one minute it's ungainly and ugly and cluncky and heavy, and then it's singng cantabile, and then it's light as a feather. Some of the music in the middle seemed some of the most thrilling Beethoven playing I've heard in ages, as crazy as a Schumann sonata played by Gieseking.

In the second movement I noticed ornamentation (like a guitar?), and some ideas about voice leading in the central passage. I don't know what to make of these things - the voicing seemed pretty random, but I need to think more, feel more, or something.

In the third movement, he's playing with his boots on the keys.  Slapstick.

The final movement was wonderful in every way, great, thrilling, moving, funny, never overbearing.

Anyway very exciting and challenging music making. Makes me think of a french expressiom: plus on est de fous, plus on rit.

[Todd]

Anyway very exciting and challenging music making.

I concur.  This is definitely for fans of interventionist piano playing.

[Mandryka]

Think of all those other interventionists -- Gould, Lin, Sherman, Heidsieck. He joins them.  Some are U and some non-U.

[San Antone]

Has this news been posted yet in this thread?  The Pollini complete box is out:

[asin]B00NJ1MMZ8[/asin]

[Todd]

Think of all those other interventionists -- Gould, Lin, Sherman, Heidsieck. He joins them.  Some are U and some non-U.

I assume you mean Lim, not Lin.  Throw in Guy, Yamane, Paik, Pludermacher, and Kuerti and you've got a pretty wide array of interventionist pianists to choose from.  I'm still working my way through the set for the second time and working on comments, but suffice it to say that Pienaar is closer to Heidsieck, Sherman, and Guy in terms of quality, or at least more to my taste.  He also pulls a Yamane in the slow movement of 111.

[Todd]

Has this news been posted yet in this thread?  The Pollini complete box is out:

[asin]B00NJ1MMZ8[/asin]

Posted before the release.  I posted a quick blurb on the new recordings in the Opp 31, 49 set.  Better to buy all the individual discs for Pollini to double up on some sonatas.

[Mandryka]

Not easy to make judgements about this type of playing, other than to say "more to my taste", which is saying something about you rather than the performance. Criticism reduced to autobiography. I think it's better to describe.  And ask questions. Like why balance the music like that? Or why ornament like that? If no answer is forthcoming, if it really is just a whim, a casual decision, that seems a weakness.

[George]

Think of all those other interventionists -- Gould, Lin, Sherman, Heidsieck. He joins them.  Some are U and some non-U.

I'd add Fazil Say, whose Beethoven I love.

[Todd]

And ask questions.

Describing I'll buy, but not asking questions.  I'd never get answers.  I know precisely why I like Pienaar and Sherman and Heidsieck and Guy so much, what's good and not so good about Paik, and why I don't like Lim and am not wild about Pludermacher or Kuerti.  I believe I've even commented on at least a couple of them.

[Todd]

Volume 4 in Jonathan Biss' LvB cycle, now on JB Recordings rather than Onyx, continues on with four excellently played sonatas.  Following on the heels of decidedly intervetionist and more intense Daniel-Ben Pienaar, and in the midst of seven new (to me) recordings by Eric Heidsieck, Biss comes across as a straight-shooter, who, while not devoid of individual touches, doesn't succumb to excess.  2/1 is restrained but peppy; 10/2 light and fun and cleanly articulated;  49/1 is charming; and 57 is energetic and fiery, in a classical sort of way.  Sound is superb.  The only complaint, a mere quibble, is one gets to hear a fair amount of Biss' breathing.  Excellent in every way. 

[Todd]

With more Japanese sellers in the US Amazon marketplace, I decided to snag some Eric Heidsieck recordings that were otherwise a bit too spendy for my taste.  These three discs includes a smorgasbord of goodies, but mostly they include Beethoven.  Seven sonatas, to be exact.  The two Uwajima discs are live recitals, the Sonte Pastorale disc a studio affair.  They were recorded between 1989 and 1993.  Sound is not especially good for any, but it is poor – bright and pingy and echo-y for the 1989 Tempest/Estampes disc.  That's a shame because the playing is good across the board, and 31/2, if not the most intense around, is light and classical in demeanor, with a high energy closer.  Sound is less of an issue through headphones fed by a discman, but even then it's less than ideal.  (The real shame, though, is Estampes, which is dazzling in Heidsieck's conception.  I will probably have to spring for his 1970s Cassiopee recording now.) 

The Beethoven Recital disc has Opp 13, 27/2, and 57.  The first two fare well and are enjoyable without qualification.  Op 57 finds Heidsieck suffering what appears to be something of a memory lapse at the end of the first movement, though he manages to recover eventually.  There's plenty of energy on offer. 

The Sonte Pastorale disc is another threefer, this time Opp 28, 49/2, and 111.  Op 28 sounds magnificent in the first two movements, has a way too slow Scherzo, and a slightly too slow final movement, just like the EMI set.  Also like the EMI set, 49/2 is more substantive than normal, but Heidsieck keeps it light enough and quite beautiful.  His dynamic and rhythmic freedom may be slightly more noticeable, but that's quite alright.  Op 111 lacks the potency and intensity of the best versions in the first movement, and the depth in the second, yet Heidsieck manages to play with enough depth and "natural" flow to make it work well, and of course some details are superb, such as the "little stars" and trills.  Both the EMI and Ogam recordings of the last sonata are better, but this was more than worth hearing for me.

Now I have to decide if the Ogam 101/106 is worth spending over $30 to get a used copy from Germany.  (Ironically, the seller is located in the Seattle area, but I'd have to buy through Germany – and yes I tried to email the guy.)  The Ogam Opp 53/54/57 appears to be completely gone everywhere on earth, and I now have a most wanted single LvB recording: Heidsieck's debut recording – a 1957 Op 106.  Never on CD, and a rarity on LP, I will probably only ever ponder it.

[George]

After completing the Pollini and Houstoun cycles, I cobbled together a rough list of how I would rank the various cycles I've heard.  I hasten to point out that almost every cycle has at least a few redeeming qualities and a few sonatas that really shine. 



Top Tier – The Holy Tetrarchy
Annie Fischer (Hungarton)
Friedrich Gulda (Amadeo)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, mono)
Wilhelm Backhaus (mono)

[Rudolf Serkin; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]



Top Tier – The Rest of the Top Ten (sort of in order)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, stereo)
Eric Heidsieck
Russell Sherman
Andrea Lucchesini
Emil Gilels
Daniel-Ben Pienaar

[Sviatoslav Richter; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]



Second Tier (in alphabetical order)
Artur Schnabel
Bernard Roberts
Claude Frank
Claudio Arrau (1960s)
Daniel Barenboim (EMI, 2005)
Francois Frederic Guy
Friedrich Gulda (Orfeo)
Maurizio Pollini
Michael Levinas
Paul Badura-Skoda (JVC/Astree)
Peter Takacs
Robert Silverman
Seymour Lipkin
Takahiro Sonoda (Denon)
Wilhelm Backhaus (stereo)
Yusuke Kikuchi

[Bruce Hungerford; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]



Third Tier (in alphabetical order)
Abdel Rahman El Bacha (Mirare)
Akiyoshi Sako
Alfred Brendel (Philips, 1970s)
Alfred Brendel (Vox)
Alfredo Perl
Andras Schiff
Craig Sheppard
Daniel Barenboim (DG)
Daniel Barenboim (EMI, 1960s)
David Allen Wehr
Dieter Zechlin
Friedrich Gulda (Decca)
Gerard Willems
Gerhard Oppitz
Ichiro Nodaira (may be second tier stuff – Op 31 is so freakin' good . . .)
Irina Mejoueva
John O'Conor
Kun-Woo Paik
Louie Lortie
Michael Houstoun (Rattle)
Michael Korstick
Paul Badura-Skoda (Gramola)
Peter Rösel
Rudolf Buchbinder (Teldec)
Stephen Kovacevich
Stewart Goodyear
Wilhelm Kempff (1961, King International)
Yaeko Yamane
Yves Nat
....

I am a bit surprised Yves Nat didn't make second tier. Was it a close call?

I am listening to his set again tonight and really enjoying each and every performance.

[Todd]

I am a bit surprised Yves Nat didn't make second tier. Was it a close call?

The tiering is inexact, of course.  It's been a while since I listened to all of Nat's cycle, and at his best Nat is exceptional, but his set is a bit uneven, and I find that his late sonatas aren't as relatively good as many of his earlier sonatas.  All of the sets I put the third tier have many sonatas that are exceptionally good, but end up being too uneven overall, and often falter somewhat in either Op 31 or the late sonatas. 

[jlaurson]

I wish Yves Nat would be re-issued with just the Beethoven, in a  nice little slim box.

Meanwhile I seem to remember that the ICON issue of his pianism, including the complete Beethoven, has been newly remastered. Is that correct? Has anyone (I'm looking at you, Todd) heard both, the old brick-set and the recordings in the black box? 

[Todd]

Has anyone (I'm looking at you, Todd) heard both, the old brick-set and the recordings in the black box? 

Yes.  I cannot recall really big differences in sound quality.  The new set may be a bit "fuller", but I ditched the old set, so I can't do comparisons.  I will say that the Icon box is superior since it includes some Schumann.

[Henk]

After completing the Pollini and Houstoun cycles, I cobbled together a rough list of how I would rank the various cycles I've heard.  I hasten to point out that almost every cycle has at least a few redeeming qualities and a few sonatas that really shine. 



Top Tier – The Holy Tetrarchy
Annie Fischer (Hungarton)
Friedrich Gulda (Amadeo)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, mono)
Wilhelm Backhaus (mono)

[Rudolf Serkin; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]



Top Tier – The Rest of the Top Ten (sort of in order)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, stereo)
Eric Heidsieck
Russell Sherman
Andrea Lucchesini
Emil Gilels
Daniel-Ben Pienaar

[Sviatoslav Richter; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]



Second Tier (in alphabetical order)
Artur Schnabel
Bernard Roberts
Claude Frank
Claudio Arrau (1960s)
Daniel Barenboim (EMI, 2005)
Francois Frederic Guy
Friedrich Gulda (Orfeo)
Maurizio Pollini
Michael Levinas
Paul Badura-Skoda (JVC/Astree)
Peter Takacs
Robert Silverman
Seymour Lipkin
Takahiro Sonoda (Denon)
Wilhelm Backhaus (stereo)
Yusuke Kikuchi

[Bruce Hungerford; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]



Third Tier (in alphabetical order)
Abdel Rahman El Bacha (Mirare)
Akiyoshi Sako
Alfred Brendel (Philips, 1970s)
Alfred Brendel (Vox)
Alfredo Perl
Andras Schiff
Craig Sheppard
Daniel Barenboim (DG)
Daniel Barenboim (EMI, 1960s)
David Allen Wehr
Dieter Zechlin
Friedrich Gulda (Decca)
Gerard Willems
Gerhard Oppitz
Ichiro Nodaira (may be second tier stuff – Op 31 is so freakin' good . . .)
Irina Mejoueva
John O'Conor
Kun-Woo Paik
Louie Lortie
Michael Houstoun (Rattle)
Michael Korstick
Paul Badura-Skoda (Gramola)
Peter Rösel
Rudolf Buchbinder (Teldec)
Stephen Kovacevich
Stewart Goodyear
Wilhelm Kempff (1961, King International)
Yaeko Yamane
Yves Nat



Fourth Tier (in alphabetical order)
Abdel Rahman El Bacha (Forlane)
Aldo Ciccolini
Alfred Brendel (Philips, 1990s)
Andre De Groote
Anton Kuerti
Christian Leotta
Dino Ciani
Georges Pludermacher
Idil Biret
Ikuyo Nakamichi
Jean Bernard Pommier
Jean Muller
Jeno Jando
John Lill
Mari Kodama
Maria Grinburg
Melodie Zhao
Paul Lewis
Richard Goode
Ronald Brautigam
Rudolf Buchbinder (RCA)
Timothy Ehlen
Vladimir Ashkenazy
Walter Gieseking (Tahra)
Yukio Yokoyama



Bottom Tier (in sorta particular order)
[Glenn Gould; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]
HJ Lim
Rita Bouboulidi
Tatiana Nikolayeva
Anne Oland

That's impressive. Need Serkin. No Lim?

[Todd]

No Lim?

Maybe one day I will revisit her cycle in its entirety, but not today.  With so many other choices out there, why go bottom tier?