Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[George]

So we can conclude, that my list above is complete?

I think so.

[prémont]

Kempff went on to record two complete sonata cycles in the 1950's and 1960's but he has always been regarded as a poetic and lyrical player and his Beethoven is therefore more closely allied to Mozart than the more barnstorming approach of others. The 'first thoughts' included here are perhaps the freest of all his recordings and have an almost improvisatory feel. Perhaps the impossibility of editing at this period captured Kempff more naturally than in his later efforts.

In the mid 1960's I attended two recitals with Kempff, in one of these he played only Beethoven sonatas. Even if I was very young, I already knew much of his mono-cycle, and my impression was - IIRC - that he was much more free at recital, than in the recordings. The live recital from Japan (which I have not heard) might possibly confirm that impression.

[André]

Thanks, Mandryka !

[amw]

My opinion doesn't mean much (and that is not false modesty). But after listening to Laul I find it hard to listen to most of my other sets. He's got excitement, danger, intensity, in spades - and it didn't cost a penny. 

Interpretively there's something about his sonatas that reminds me of Michael Korstick's cycle. With a little less technique, and a little more depth, and better tonal control, and more moderate tempi (not by much, though). I suppose not really that similar after all. If a commercial recording is forthcoming I'd probably listen to it though.

The Hammerklavier outer movements are under tempo, but he tries to make them sound fast, clearly having been listening to Maria Yudina. Which is not a bad thing. There are a lot of wrong notes and pedal abuse though. (Why slow down that much if you still can't play the notes? Might as well just listen to Schnabel >.>)

I have a strong intuition that amw will LOATH it.

I have heard it, because I liked Sokolov's DV and I listen to far more op. 106s than can be healthy. I thought it was beautifully played and pretty boring, for whatever my opinion's worth.

[Brian]

Remind me how folks like the 1983-84 Daniel Barenboim Beethoven sonata cycle on video?



"True HD picture! Digitally remastered and restored from 35mm film. Including intensive and high-quality audio and visual restoration."

[Todd]

Sorta cross posted from the Recordings That You Are Considering thread.  This disc is part of a series that will ultimately include 24 of the sonatas from a live cycle recorded a few years back.  But it's download only, at least for now.  I like me something to hold in my hands. 

[mc ukrneal]

Remind me how folks like the 1983-84 Daniel Barenboim Beethoven sonata cycle on video?



"True HD picture! Digitally remastered and restored from 35mm film. Including intensive and high-quality audio and visual restoration."

You can find these on youtube to sample them and see if you like them. It's a bit reverberant from what I remember, and the video is just of him sitting in elegant looking rooms. Barenboim is better technically than in the later video, but the later video is live and there is more frisson. Interpretatively, I remember it being a bit conservative, whereas I find the more recent version more interesting from this point of view. But best to sample it and see what you think. I've not heard the other audio sets he did, so cannot compare to that.

[jlaurson]

Bruno-Leonardo Gelber recorded (some) Beethoven Sonatas for Denon back in the days... but it seems he's never gotten near the finish line.
Does anyone have information on this?
I've found the following of the sonatas covered by Gelber.

1, X, 3, X, 5, 6, 7, 8, X, X, X, X, 13, 14, 15, X, 17, 18, X, 20, 21, x, 22, 23, X, 25, 26, 27, 28, X, X, X, 32

[Jo498]

No, except that they are mostly very good (I have all but one of the Denon Beethoven discs) and that he had recorded about two LPs worth or so already in the 60s and 70s for EMI. Unfortunately, they do not help for completion, for all I know. I have opp. 27/1, 28 and 81a in the EMI rarissimes Vol. and there are also op.13 and 27/2, all of which are also in the Denon set (different recordings, of course).
Apparently op.27/1 and 81a were special favorites of the artist and he supposedly played them frequently in recital.

[asin]B000A2ES8S[/asin]

The Denon were bloody expensive when they came out around 1990, usually this did not matter much in those times (as they could claim "audiophile sound") but maybe sales were poor?

[prémont]

The Denon were bloody expensive when they came out around 1990, usually this did not matter much in those times (as they could claim "audiophile sound") but maybe sales were poor?

I purchased four of the Denon CDs in the early 1990es, but I found him shameless - almost intruding extrovert, not at all to my taste, so I parted with them eventually. Good sound (and price) however.

[Jo498]

"shameless - almost intruding extrovert"
I do not think I understand what this is supposed to mean in musical interpretation.
Do you mean he plays Beethoven like Liszt?
Do you think LvB's op.2/3, 13 or 57 (and many others) is "introvert music"? Beethoven, as long as he played in public was known both for the emotional depth but also for the extrovert brilliance of his playing and I think this shows in many pieces (expecially those involving a piano and up to op.73 or so... )

[Todd]

Bruno-Leonardo Gelber recorded (some) Beethoven Sonatas for Denon back in the days... but it seems he's never gotten near the finish line.

That aborted cycle is long dead.  There are six volumes on Denon, and I believe they are all available in Japan.  I think you covered them, but I've not explored the recordings at all.  I have an earlier incarnation of the EMI disc, and it's not good enough for me to spend premium sums on an incomplete set.

[prémont]

"shameless - almost intruding extrovert"
I do not think I understand what this is supposed to mean in musical interpretation.
Do you mean he plays Beethoven like Liszt?
Do you think LvB's op.2/3, 13 or 57 (and many others) is "introvert music"? Beethoven, as long as he played in public was known both for the emotional depth but also for the extrovert brilliance of his playing and I think this shows in many pieces (expecially those involving a piano and up to op.73 or so... )

I am not talking about the music, but about Gelbers interpretation. I find that Gelber abuse Beethovens music for his own purpose,
And I notice, that the hypercompletistic Todd doesn´t have the intention to collect Gelbers recordings.

[Todd]

And I notice, that the hypercompletistic Todd doesn´t have the intention to collect Gelbers recordings.

Not at the prices I would have had to have paid the last time I looked.  If Denon boxed 'em up at a lower price point - $20-$30 for the whole shebang - then that's a different story.  As it is now, the next LvB import from Japan I have to prepare or is Kosuge.

[Jo498]

I will certainly not tell anyone what to like but Gelber is neither willful nor excentric (as could be said about e.g. Gould or maybe Pletnev and Afanassiev), in fact I'd very roughly characterize them as extremely well done "mainstreamy" readings and this could probably be already checked by soundbites.
So I do find "abuse" a both misleading and unfair verdict (and it also brings, confusingly, a moral aspect into aesthetic judgment).

If I count correctly, there are 19 or 20 sonatas on Denon (the worst gap is the lack of opp.106-110). More than Serkin or Solomon recorded and about as many as Gould and Richter did.

If you check e.g. the rec.music.classical.recordings archive on google groups you will see that Gelber (and those Beethoven recordings) are regarded quite highly by a diverse range of listeners and collectors. Until SACD came along the Denons would also be regarded as having demonstration quality sound.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.music.classical.recordings/gelber$20beethoven

I am not going to tell anyone what to do but Gelber/Denon should IMO have at least as high a priority for a Beethoven sonata collector as e.g. Schiff or Oppitz (or probably two dozen others Todd has heard of which I do not even know the names of the pianists...)

I'd also dare a bet that Todd will like most of Gelber's. We both like the Gulda/Amadeo a lot, it seems, and I like Gelber's.

I got one or two from Japan and the others (as I said, I still lack one) from Ebay or Amazon marketplace some time ago (not all at once) and I am pretty sure that I did not pay more than 10-12 Euros (incl. shipping) for any of them (certainly not on average).

[Pat B]

Just a couple of days ago I ordered his disc with 21,27,32 -- but the seller cancelled it and the other seller's price has gone up by about $5.

The other 5 Denon discs are on spotify.

[prémont]

I will certainly not tell anyone what to like but Gelber is neither willful nor excentric (as could be said about e.g. Gould or maybe Pletnev and Afanassiev), in fact I'd very roughly characterize them as extremely well done "mainstreamy" readings and this could probably be already checked by soundbites.

I did not write, that I find him willful or eccentric, but on the other hand far from mainstream. I think he is unrestricted romantic, making Annie Fischer seem utterly inhibited in comparison. Mainstream is Goode e.g..

[Todd]

I'd also dare a bet that Todd will like most of Gelber's.

I've heard the EMI disc, and the sonatas are good, but nothing special, and I don't like his Emperor.  Hence, my lack of enthusiasm for buying the Denon discs.  Again, if they come out as a box at a nice price, I'll buy, but I'm focused on complete sets.

[George]

The EMI Appassionata can be heard on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shbOpZHb0Oc

[George]

Bruno-Leonardo Gelber recorded (some) Beethoven Sonatas for Denon back in the days... but it seems he's never gotten near the finish line.
Does anyone have information on this?
I've found the following of the sonatas covered by Gelber.

1, X, 3, X, 5, 6, 7, 8, X, X, X, X, 13, 14, 15, X, 17, 18, X, 20, 21, x, 22, 23, X, 25, 26, 27, 28, X, X, X, 32

I don't think 22 was released on Denon, Jens.