Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Kontrapunctus]

I recently bought Paul Lewis' complete set of Sonatas. While and individual Sonata here and there might be a little more satisfying, overall, it's a hugely enjoyable set and very well recorded.

[Oldnslow]

Among the newer sets of the sonatas I'm very impressed with  20 year old Melodie Zhao on Claves. Hard to believe anyone this young could be outstanding in this music but she certainly is in m opinion.

[jlaurson]

Among the newer sets of the sonatas I'm very impressed with  20 year old Melodie Zhao on Claves. Hard to believe anyone this young could be outstanding in this music but she certainly is in m opinion.

Beethoven Sonatas - A Survey of Complete Cycles
Part 9, 2014 - onward
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2014/12/beethoven-sonatas-survey-of-complete.html

...Records are made to be broken, even in classical music. When then 24-year-old Korean HJ Lim recorded the complete Beethoven Sontatas for EMI, released for a tenner on iTunes, it made a splash mostly for audacity. Two years later she is bested in every way: Swiss-Chinese Mélodie Zhao has done it at 19... and much more gratifyingly. This cycle is tastefully individual instead of idiosyncratic, thought-through instead of overwrought, and to the point instead of proving one...

[Oldnslow]

Todd/Jens---have you listened to the set (recorded live) by Steven Herbert Smith? It was favorably reviewed in ARG a few months ago. Very fine set, which includes the major variations.

[jlaurson]

Todd/Jens---have you listened to the set (recorded live) by Steven Herbert Smith? It was favorably reviewed in ARG a few months ago. Very fine set, which includes the major variations.

I'm not even sure I'm aware of it. (Oh, yes I am. On "Soundwave". Is it even legit?) No... I'll look into at least finding the review. (Perhaps you could help?)

[Brian]

You know Todd. He already wrote about it!

[mc ukrneal]

Gulda was not my first cycle, I had the incomplete Gilels before and before that all the better known and probably together about 2/3 of them in recordings by diverse pianists. But I got it early enough to become somewhat imprinted by it and the interpretations opened up some pieces I had found rather tedious with e.g. Gilels. So because of this listening history I will always retain a fondness. Also, as someone who so far was most of his life stuck in some provincial town and lacked funds, resolve and opportunity to travel to concerts, Gulda is one of the few well known pianists I saw live in recital (ca. 1994 or 95 in Berlin, actually before I got the Beethoven set in 98 or 99) which might also explain my fondness.
Now with another 16 years of listening to the music behind me I can see why some don't much care for that cycle and I do not turn towards it as frequently as I used to (and then mainly for the earlier pieces).

Right now I am slowly going through Arrau's and Lucchesini's, both of which I have had for several years but never completely listened to them. Later I might do the same for Heidsieck's. I can see what some people like about Arrau's, and I like some sonatas myself but overall I find he is often rather heavy-handed (not necessarily slow, but sometimes also quite slow) and humorless in the earlier works.

In any case, even conceding that it is somewhat one-sided, I am not sure I have heard a cycle I clearly prefer to Gulda's and I think that it still merits its reputation as one of the standardly recommended Beethoven sonata cycles (along with Schnabel, Backhaus, Kempff, Arrau, Brendel, maybe Fischer and Pollini or what have you).

I found Gilels so disappointing. I wish I had never bought it...

[George]

I found Gilels so disappointing. I wish I had never bought it...

My first impression was bad. I find I need to be in the right mood for his Beethoven. I think he's at his best in Opuses 2/3, 27/1, 27/2, 81a and 110.

[Jo498]

Some of Gilels' russian live recordings that are available on Brilliant are more obviously passionate and not as "severe" as the DG recordings (I remember to have been quite impressed with the op.90 from those live ones). I think the DG Gilels can be something of an acquired taste and I would not recommend them as first choice or for beginners; they can be very slow, are always very "controlled", lack humor etc. but they are also quite powerful. Some do not work for me but of the ones that do I often prefer them to other slowish ones like Arrau's.

[George]

Some of Gilels' russian live recordings that are available on Brilliant are more obviously passionate and not as "severe" as the DG recordings (I remember to have been quite impressed with the op.90 from those live ones).

Yeah, some of those live Beethoven sonata recordings in the green BC box are awesome!

I think the DG Gilels can be something of an acquired taste and I would not recommend them as first choice or for beginners; they can be very slow, are always very "controlled", lack humor etc. but they are also quite powerful. Some do not work for me but of the ones that do I often prefer them to other slowish ones like Arrau's.

Glad to hear this, as I have yet to buy Arrau's.

[Holden]

There are some similarities in approach between Gilels and Kempff (and also some glaring differences). I'll take Kempff (mono) just about every  time with the exception of 2/3, 27/1, Op 28 and Op 81a. His Op27/1 is the best I've heard from anyone.

[Jo498]

I have not heard a lot of Kempff but I think his playing is far more lyrical, even "easy-going" compared to Gilels. Gilels sometimes reminds me a little of Klemperer whose Beethoven has been called "granitic".
I disliked some of Gilels after I had heard Gulda but more than 15 years later I am happy to have the DG Gilels for some of its unique features.
I don't remember his op.27 so well but agree with the recommendation of opp. 2/3, 81a and 110. To which I'd probably add opp. 10/3, maybe op.31 and, if one does not insist on humor, op.2/2 and certainly the Eroica variations. If the "green" Brilliant box can still be found cheaply, I'd certainly recommend it. The sound on most of the sonatas is decent (especially for 1970s Russian live), the concertos less so. 

[Florestan]

If the "green" Brilliant box can still be found cheaply, I'd certainly recommend it. The sound on most of the sonatas is decent (especially for 1970s Russian live), the concertos less so.

I don´t remember the sound but the audiences must be some of the most well behaved ever recorded.

[NorthNYMark]

I don't remember exactly what prompted it, but I spent much of the previous weekend going through this entire thread! Needless to say, it was quite the journey, and prompted quite a bit of exploring (made easier by the fact that I am a Spotify subscriber, so have access to the majority of cycles discussed). I am relatively new to the sonata cycle as a whole, having heard many of the unnamed sonatas (especially the earlier ones) no more than two or three times, and am slowly but surely familiarizing myself with some of the named and later sonatas. I actually read through much of this thread already a few years ago, and ended up purchasing the Backhaus stereo and Annie Fischer sets. At the time, the next on my list was going to be Gulda Amadeo, but I'm starting to re-think that. In my more recent explorations, I've been most impressed with Lucchesini, Takacs, and Serkin, and least impressed with Arrau, Gilels, and Lim--but I haven't heard any of their sets in total, and don't necessarily trust my initial impressions.

After reading through all these posts, I have many questions, but I'll start with what I suspect is a pretty straightforward one about the much-loved Annie Fischer set. As I mentioned above, it's one of only two of which I own the physical copy. I enjoy much of it for the usual reasons people offer--its power, it's dark, rich Bösendorfer tone, her control of dramatic build-up. etc. Yet, I am also aware of what many consider its flaws (e.g., its having been carefully assembled from multiple takes, and an out-of-tune piano). Now, the first aspect doesn't bother me much--I don't think I would have guessed that the performances were assembled in the studio if I had not read it. I am a bit more concerned about the piano being in tune. I'm actually not musically experienced (or perhaps tonally sensitive) enough to know for sure whether or not an instrument is perfectly in tune, but there are times when I listen to the set and I think I hear the problem, and other times when I don't, which drives me a little crazy.

So here is my question, for those of you who are more knowledgable about such things: are all the performances in Annie's set out of tune, or only some? If it is only some, do you know which ones? The one that sounds the most "off" to me is the "Moonlight" Sonata (no. 14, 27/2)--am I right in this observation? Many others sound perfectly fine to me, and I find it interesting that none of the set's supporters ever mention this problem, so I wonder if it is either very slight or only affects a small number of the sonatas in the set.

Thanks in advance for any responses! 

Mark

[André]

The Beethoven Sonatas thread resident expert has not chimed in lately, and yours is an excellent question. I would suggest you wait until Todd or another one of our esteemed specialists has his say on the subject.

In the meantime, do explore the Eric Heidsieck integral set (EMI) - or at least locate a seller until you decide if a purchase is in  order. It features exceptionally lucid and refined performances which never stint on the energy level. You probably read about it in this thread.

[George]

After reading through all these posts, I have many questions, but I'll start with what I suspect is a pretty straightforward one about the much-loved Annie Fischer set. As I mentioned above, it's one of only two of which I own the physical copy. I enjoy much of it for the usual reasons people offer--its power, it's dark, rich Bosendorfer tone, her control of dramatic build-up. etc. Yet, I am also aware of what many consider its flaws (e.g., its having been carefully assembled from multiple takes, and an out-of-tune piano). Now, the first aspect doesn't bother me much--I don't think I would have guessed that the performances were assembled in the studio if I had not read it.

Nor would have I. And even now knowing how they were recorded does not diminish my enjoyment of the set.

I am a bit more concerned about the piano being in tune. I'm actually not musically experienced (or perhaps tonally sensitive) enough to know for sure whether or not an instrument is perfectly in tune, but there are times when I listen to the set and I think I hear the problem, and other times when I don't, which drives me a little crazy.

So here is my question, for those of you who are more knowledgable about such things: are all the performances in Annie's set out of tune, or only some? If it is only some, do you know which ones? The one that sounds the most "off" to me is the "Moonlight" Sonata (no. 14, 27/2)--am I right in this observation? Many others sound perfectly fine to me, and I find it interesting that none of the set's supporters ever mention this problem, so I wonder if it is either very slight or only affects a small number of the sonatas in the set.

Thanks in advance for any responses! 

Mark

I have yet to notice which one(s) are out of tune. And I hope to never find out. If anyone stops by to explain, I plan to stick my fingers in my ear and shout "La, La, La, La!" 

[Cato]

...and ended up purchasing the Backhaus stereo ... sets.

... are all the performances in Annie's set out of tune, or only some? If it is only some, do you know which ones? The one that sounds the most "off" to me is the "Moonlight" Sonata (no. 14, 27/2)--am I right in this observation? Many others sound perfectly fine to me, and I find it interesting that none of the set's supporters ever mention this problem, so I wonder if it is either very slight or only affects a small number of the sonatas in the set.

The Backhaus is my choice!

I have never heard the set, but several reviewers have remarked that the piano is out of tune: unfortunately I could not find a reviewer who specifies which sonatas were affected.

[NorthNYMark]

The Beethoven Sonatas thread resident expert has not chimed in lately, and yours is an excellent question. I would suggest you wait until Todd or another one of our esteemed specialists has his say on the subject.

In the meantime, do explore the Eric Heidsieck integral set (EMI) - or at least locate a seller until you decide if a purchase is in  order. It features exceptionally lucid and refined performances which never stint on the energy level. You probably read about it in this thread.

Thanks, André! I definitely took note of the praise the Heidsieck set was getting, and the descriptions of it sounded very appealing indeed. Unfortunately, that set is one of the very few that doesn't seem to be available on Spotify, even in part. I think I read that it is up on Youtube, so I may try to preview some of it that way at some point.

[NorthNYMark]

Nor would have I. And even now knowing how they were recorded does not diminish my enjoyment of the set.

I have yet to notice which one(s) are out of tune. And I hope to never find out. If anyone stops by to explain, I plan to stick my fingers in my ear and shout "La, La, La, La!" 

LOL--Understood. I guess I'm glad I'm not the only one for whom those flaws are not particularly obvious. By the way, I really enjoyed your posts throughout the long thread--we seem to have some common preferences. For a while, I thought a big difference was your apparent lack of interest or enthusiasm for the Lucchesini set. But then I saw your more recent posts on the subject in a different thread! :-)

[NorthNYMark]

The Backhaus is my choice!

I have never heard the set, but several reviewers have remarked that the piano is out of tune: unfortunately I could not find a reviewer who specifies which sonatas were affected.

Thanks, Cato. I really enjoy the Backhaus as well (and it's kind of hard to put my finger on exactly why it seems to connect with me better than many others).