Author Topic: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)  (Read 188485 times)

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Mozart

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #60 on: July 23, 2007, 11:08:26 PM »
Anyone have a good recommendation for Mozart's kegelstatt trio k.498? I have been dying to listen to it for months but the library doesn't have a recording.

viola piano and clarinet it has to be amazing right?

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2007, 03:05:13 AM »
Anyone have a good recommendation for Mozart's kegelstatt trio k.498? I have been dying to listen to it for months but the library doesn't have a recording.

viola piano and clarinet it has to be amazing right?

It IS amazing. A very nice piece, which is typical of Mozart when he was writing for himself and his friends to play (thus the viola rather than the violin).

I have (as with most Mozart) 2 versions. One modern, one HIP. The modern one is on a Philips Duo, the one of the Beaux Arts Trio's "Complete Piano Trios", but it isn't the BAT playing this piece (don't have it here, so I can't tell you exactly, but hard to make a mistake). The HIP version is L'Archibudelli with Charles Neidich, which is still available cheap at Amazon (or was 2 weeks ago  :-\ ).

I would be willing to bet there are a lot of nice versions out there, it is a very popular work, rightly so. :)

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Offline Que

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2007, 09:00:51 AM »
The HIP scene is starting to get sci-fi features: things are developping at light speed and are getting more amazing by the day! ;D  After the resurrection of the lute-harpsichord (Lautenwerck) and the clavichord,
next is the Tangentenflügel (tangent piano)!

This is the first release of a new German label: "Ludi Musici".
Two SACD's in a booklet with 6 violin sonatas by Mozart with a Tangentenflügel (and an interview in German) - isn't it fascinating? Anton Steck is a superb baroque violinist and the sound of the Tangentenflügel, played by Marieke Spaans, is very cute IMO.

Online Review

[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.jpc.de/mp3/780/7808456_01.mp3[/mp3]
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.jpc.de/mp3/780/7808456_04.mp3[/mp3]
Longer samples of higher quality can be found here (tracks 5-9) and here.

Q
« Last Edit: October 26, 2009, 02:48:28 AM by Que »

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2007, 02:55:34 AM »
Did anyone got this intriguing beauty already? :)


              click pic for link

Q

No, but I will. Thanks for the link, Q!

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Offline Que

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2007, 01:18:05 AM »

              click pic for link

I got just it. I rarely buy brand new issues, but this was on special offer. ;)

How is it? I'm giving this a qualified recommendation only...
I'll make some comparisons with the issue on ZIG ZAG of the concerto for two (forte)pianos KV 365, conducted by Jos Van Immerseel - pictured below. 
First, I have some reservations concerning the balance between the orchestra, the Haydn Sinfonietta Wien, and the fortepianos. The orchestra sounds too BIG and as one "block", which hinders properly highlighting different solos within the orchestra and overpowers the fortepianos, which in their turn sound too recessed - though mainly in KV 365 and considerably less so in the other pieces. But the Haydn Sinfonietta is substantially bigger (counted 39 members on their site) than Immerseel's orchestra "Anima Eterna": 28 members. And small is beautiful: In Immerseel's recording the interplay between the solos in the orchestra and the fortepiano's is delightfully showcased and the orchestral sound picture is wonderfully transparent - hear it once and you'll never want anything else.
Besides the orchestra souding too "massive" (mind: relatively speaking - we're talking HIP here! ;D) the conducting is not in the same class as Van Immerseel - who is IMO a "visionary" in Mozart on the level of René Jacobs in the operas. So less distinctive conducting, but it still is all cheery and upbeat and does not sound "wrong" in terms of phrasing and rhythmic treatment either. The soloists Brautigam and Lubimov are superb. The have wonderfull instruments made after Walther.



Q
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 09:53:08 AM by Que »

Offline hautbois

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2007, 06:59:06 AM »

              click pic for link

I got just it. I rarely buy brand new issues, but this was on special offer. ;)

How is it? I'm giving this a qualified recommendation only...
I'll make some comparisons with the issue on ZIG ZAG of the concerto for two (forte)pianos KV 365, conducted by Jos Van Immerseel - pictured below. 
First, I have some reservations concerning the balance between the orchestra, the Haydn Sinfonietta Wien, and the fortepianos. The orchestra sounds too BIG and as one "block", which hinders properly highlighting different solos within the orchestra and overpowers the fortepianos, which in their turn sound too recessed - though mainly in KV 365 and considerably less so in the other pieces. But the Haydn Sinfonietta is substantially bigger (counted 39 members on their site) than Immerseel's orchestra "Anima Eterna": 28 members. And small is beautiful: In Immerseel's recording the interplay between the solos in the orchestra and the fortepiano's is delightfully showcased and the orchestral sound picture is wonderfully transparent - hear it once and you'll never want anything else.
Besides the orchestra souding too "massive" (mind: relatively speaking - we're talking HIP here! ;D) the conducting is not in the same class as Van Immerseel - who is IMO a "visionary" in Mozart on the level of René Jacobs in the operas. So less distinctive conducting, but it still is all cheery and upbeat and does not sound "wrong" in terms of phrasing and rhythmic treatment either. The soloists Brautigam and Lubimov are superb. The have wonderfull instruments made after Walther.



Q

But of course the Immerseel is much more expensive in comparison. I guess in this case it's a "You get what you pay for"?

Howard

Offline FideLeo

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2007, 01:59:58 AM »


Well, fortepiano for Beethoven, but fortepiano for Mozart, too!  Ongoing series include Staier, Levin, Brunner and now Beghin - keep it coming!  :D

« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 02:06:18 AM by fl.traverso »
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Offline Que

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2007, 09:51:49 AM »
Recommended post by fl.traverso8)


Well, fortepiano for Beethoven, but fortepiano for Mozart, too!  Ongoing series include Staier, Levin, Brunner and now Beghin - keep it coming!  :D

Offline FideLeo

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #68 on: November 26, 2007, 10:34:55 PM »
Recommended post by fl.traverso8)


Not yet a recommendation (I haven't heard the disc) but it should be good - Beghin's Haydn is nothing short of marvellous.  :)
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Offline Que

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2007, 01:47:14 AM »


Q,
I have those and was quite pleased with them. The fortepianist with that group is Steven Lubin, who we have talked about here already, a very good one, and the string players are good too. I haven't heard the others (LFT), but haven't really missed them, although they are by all accounts excellent.

Well Gurn was absolutely spot on, as far as I'm concerned. Marvelous! These works never "clicked" with me in non-HIP recordings, but this is great. What an incredibly gorgeous music this is!  :o
Not only (forte)pianist Steven Lubin does a superb job here, all three players collaborate perfectly. And I was particularly impressed with violinist Stanley Ritchie, who has a beautiful deep, silken tone and whose phrasing fits Mozart perfectly!
This is totally satisfactory, like Gurn, I feel this is pretty definitive and have no urge to look any further.

Buy immediately!  ;D

Q
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 01:50:17 AM by Que »

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2007, 06:53:27 AM »


Well Gurn was absolutely spot on, as far as I'm concerned. Marvelous! These works never "clicked" with me in non-HIP recordings, but this is great. What an incredibly gorgeous music this is!  :o
Not only (forte)pianist Steven Lubin does a superb job here, all three players collaborate perfectly. And I was particularly impressed with violinist Stanley Ritchie, who has a beautiful deep, silken tone and whose phrasing fits Mozart perfectly!
This is totally satisfactory, like Gurn, I feel this is pretty definitive and have no urge to look any further.

Buy immediately!  ;D

Q

Ah, delighted you like them, Que. I am always hesitant to make recs because oftentimes, as in this case, I don't have a basis of comparison. These are the only HIP trios I've heard. But they ARE awfully good. :)

8)

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Offline FideLeo

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #71 on: January 15, 2008, 10:52:47 AM »


Yet another Mozart fortepiano recording!  :o :)

But, in this case, it's worth the cost of duplication  Marcia Hadjimarkos does an excellent job of playing both the big sonatas and the small ones, plus a rondo for each sonata.   The instrument she chose to record this one, a Clarke copy of Sebastian Lengerer fortepiano which was built in the tradition of Stein rather than the usual Walter.  Has the "windband" sound (there is indeed a resemblance for all I can hear) that Mozart so valued of Stein instruments.  Hadjimarkos' previous Haydn was recorded on a clavichord and her Mozart has even more varied articulations and nuanced phrasing.  Her embellishments are so nice it's hard to criticise their changing the melodic contour whenever a theme returns.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 01:59:01 PM by fl.traverso »
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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #72 on: January 15, 2008, 01:48:38 PM »


Has anyone heard this recording (Koopman/Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra)?

Also, regarding full symphony sets - does anybody have any particular favourites? The Pinnock and Hogwood look tempting - the Pinnock is substantially cheaper, but I tend to trust anything Hogwood does - plus, that box appears to have a lot more miscellaneous works included...
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Offline FideLeo

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #73 on: January 15, 2008, 01:56:23 PM »


Has anyone heard this recording (Koopman/Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra)?


Fleeting, smooth performances as one would expect from this conductor, be it Bach or Mozart.
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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #74 on: January 15, 2008, 02:08:31 PM »
Fleeting, smooth performances as one would expect from this conductor, be it Bach or Mozart.

Thank you. I think I'll snap that up... I didn't know the disc existed until I accidentely ran into it on Amazon :)
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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2008, 03:23:13 PM »
Also, regarding full symphony sets - does anybody have any particular favourites? The Pinnock and Hogwood look tempting - the Pinnock is substantially cheaper, but I tend to trust anything Hogwood does - plus, that box appears to have a lot more miscellaneous works included...

Indeed, and it is 19 CDs vs Pinnock's 11. I don't know how really completely "complete" Hogwood's set is, but it is certainly much "completer" than Pinnock's - if all those fragments and alternative versions (e.g.#40 with and without clarinets) are important to you. Plus Hogwood is much "HIPper". His set is a real trip of discovery into Mozart's symphonic world and its historical performance practices. They use different sizes of ensembles depending on the known historical circumstances and the playing style is much more "historically informed". Pinnock isn't really that "HIP" at all. They just play on period instruments, but not necessarily in a historical style. Very "nice", very smooth, very well done - but not necessarily stylistically that interesting. Then you can just as well get Mackerras' set which is on modern instruments but actually has much more "HIPness" in it.

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2008, 04:10:59 PM »
Indeed, and it is 19 CDs vs Pinnock's 11. I don't know how really completely "complete" Hogwood's set is, but it is certainly much "completer" than Pinnock's - if all those fragments and alternative versions (e.g.#40 with and without clarinets) are important to you. Plus Hogwood is much "HIPper". His set is a real trip of discovery into Mozart's symphonic world and its historical performance practices. They use different sizes of ensembles depending on the known historical circumstances and the playing style is much more "historically informed". Pinnock isn't really that "HIP" at all. They just play on period instruments, but not necessarily in a historical style. Very "nice", very smooth, very well done - but not necessarily stylistically that interesting. Then you can just as well get Mackerras' set which is on modern instruments but actually has much more "HIPness" in it.

Ahh, that sounds incredibly neat! It would be nice to experience something like that, rather than a more mechanical and uniform run-through. Considering how composers of that time not only had to write for specific and non-uniform amounts of musicians, but also had to contend with even more changes once the works had been finished (conductors treating the scores as the opposite of the sacred writ that they are considered nowadays)... it sounds like the Hogwood set could recreate some of that chaos (and adventure). I'll start saving, thank you for the advice :)
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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2008, 04:45:13 PM »
I have Hogwood, but not Pinnock, so I can't make any comparison. I second M's post nearly completely, with one amendment. There are no fragments on it, the other symphonies are in 2 categories: selected movements from serenades that he distributed as sinfonias (he did the same with other movements, selling them in manuscript as concerti), and overtures from his operas that he added finales to, ex post facto. It also has the complete symphony by Michael Haydn that Mozart wrote the first movement of. There are either 3 or 4 of the later symphonies (from "Paris" on) that have 2 different orchestrations, as M says, with and without clarinets.

In all, it was an expensive little box, but I don't regret for a minute the investment I made in it. Even the liner notes, by Neal Zaslaw, are a trove of information. :)

8)

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Offline FideLeo

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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2008, 05:00:39 PM »
I'll start saving, thank you for the advice :)

Also save for Neal Zaslaw's book, which forms the musicological basis for Schroder and Hogwood's project.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 05:03:00 PM by fl.traverso »
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Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2008, 11:16:55 AM »
I am researching the best recording to get for a HIP symphonies cycle.

What do you think? What is your favorite(s)?

I am generally a fan of Hogwood readings in general (I still did not get his cycle), but is there better ones out there?

Thanks