The College Thread

[Steve]

According to who?

The SATs validity is tested nearly every year. Every taken a Psychology course? We went through dozens of studies when studying test strategies in High-School.

[cx]

According to who?

The SATs validity is tested nearly every year. Every taken a Psychology course? We went through dozens of studies when studying test strategies in High-School.

No, I have never taken a Psychology course and never heard the claim, that's why I'm asking.

It would seem perfectly reasonable for there to be a correlation between SAT scores and IQ, but the claim that the SAT is an IQ test is going a bit further.

But I'll take your word for it, you took a class on it, I didn't.

--CS

[mahlertitan]

what about the new SAT? What about the essay section? how does that test your IQ?

[Steve]

No, I have never taken a Psychology course and never heard the claim, that's why I'm asking.

It would seem perfectly reasonable for there to be a correlation between SAT scores and IQ, but the claim that the SAT is an IQ test is going a bit further.

But I'll take your word for it, you took a class on it, I didn't.

--CS

From the the studies that I have seen, (published by the CollegeBoard and other insitutions) ,there is certainly a strong correllation between SAT scores and IQ. It's also shown to be a pretty reliable measure of IQ as well.

Essentially, both IQ and SAT tests seek to assess intellectual aptutitude. The have both been shown to be valid in that sense.

[MishaK]

It would seem perfectly reasonable for there to be a correlation between SAT scores and IQ, but the claim that the SAT is an IQ test is going a bit further.

Indeed. The SAT merely tests mathematical skills, reading comprehension and vocabulary. This has nothing directly to do with IQ, though a person with a higher IQ tends to have better skills in those areas. But unlike intelligence, SAT skills can be trained and improved. Of course for each person there is a limit. As much as I might train running, I might improve my time but I will not set a new 100m record simply because there is a limit to my physique. The SAT does test some valuable skills and for a group of students does serve as a reasonable predictor of academic excellence. But it is skewed towards certain skills and is poor at predicting the academic aptitude of talented individuals with different skill sets. It is not, however, an IQ test.

PS: I'm feeling old right now as I just realized that my 10th college reunion is coming up this year: Northwestern BA (Political Science and International Studies); Columbia Law School JD.

[Steve]

Indeed. The SAT merely tests mathematical skills, reading comprehension and vocabulary. This has nothing directly to do with IQ, though a person with a higher IQ tends to have better skills in those areas. But unlike intelligence, SAT skills can be trained and improved. Of course for each person there is a limit. As much as I might train running, I might improve my time but I will not set a new 100m record simply because there is a limit to my physique. The SAT does test some valuable skills and for a group of students does serve as a reasonable predictor of academic excellence. But it is skewed towards certain skills and is poor at predicting the academic aptitude of talented individuals with different skill sets. It is not, however, an IQ test.

PS: I'm feeling old right now as I just realized that my 10th college reunion is coming up this year: Northwestern BA (Political Science and International Studies); Columbia Law School JD.

The SAT is not an IQ test. Both IQ and SATs seek to measure intellectual aptitude, which they do well. SAT skills? Such as better test managment, and being familiar with the nuances of the exam (penalties for guessing, etc?), those would aid a student on any sort of exam. Generally speaking, test scores do not rise significantly, even with adequate preperation. The idea that one's score does not flucuate significantly is crucial to the claim that the SAT is a valid test, which it is.

[Guido]

I'm doing Natural Sciences at Cambridge University. In England we don't have majors and minors, just one single subject that we study for 3 or 4 years. They don't do single sciences (Physics, Biology, Chemistry, Geology etc.) so you have to do them all in your first year, then you specialise as you go through, but this is very unusual - usually you would apply to do say a chemistry or music degree and do only that for 3 years.

[andy]

They are among the most valid tests of IQ around. The SAT is an aptitude test, it doesn't measure a person's ability or willingness to learn, but rather, their intellectual aptitude. The GRE is built the same way. Without a 700 in Math, Grad School in Mathematics is a long-shot. 

Steve, have you taken the GRE? I never took the SAT, but I can say with confidence that one's score on the GRE is based largely on how much one studied for it. Buy a book, read it, learn some skills, like how to spot the incorrect answers without even reading the question, and you'll do much better.

And a 700 in math for grad school in math? You had better score at least a 780 if you want admitted to a decent school... the GRE only tests high school level math, so any other math major is going to be able to ace the math.

Anyhow, there's some discussion on here about grad school, and I can say that getting into grad school is very competitive these days... especially if you want in a top school or want funded. I am starting a PhD program at a university ranked in the top 20 in the world in computer science in the fall, and getting in was not easy at all. First off, you are expected to have excellent grades, we're talking like a 3.8+ gpa. You must score well on the tests GRE and subject GRE... and have excellent letters of recommendation from profs who are well-known in their field and know you well. Also, it doesn't hurt to already have published at least a paper or two in a respected conference or journal.

I didn't have all that coming out of undergrad, so I applied for masters programs at lesser ranked schools, and while there I got to know more profs, published a couple of papers, and pulled my grades up. Working on my masters has been a great experience, and I am 100% sure I want a PhD now. Grad school is tough and takes a lot of dedication.

OK sorry for the rambling... final point: grad school is awesome but it's tough to get in and a lot of work once there.

[Larry Rinkel]

PS: I'm feeling old right now as I just realized that my 10th college reunion is coming up this year: Northwestern BA (Political Science and International Studies); Columbia Law School JD.

You're feeling old? I got my last degree in 1977.

[Larry Rinkel]

According to who?


I'll throw in here:

Undergraduate student of mathematics at Columbia in NYC. Went to Boston College for a year, then transferred -- I'm a rising Junior now. I'm in NY currently taking Analysis (in two parts) and working part-time at the university.

--CS

Do you go to any of the new music events at Miller Theater?

[cx]

Do you go to any of the new music events at Miller Theater?

No, not lately, and according to their site nothing is going on during the summer. But some of the Fall events are marked on my calendar.

[Steve]

Steve, have you taken the GRE? I never took the SAT, but I can say with confidence that one's score on the GRE is based largely on how much one studied for it. Buy a book, read it, learn some skills, like how to spot the incorrect answers without even reading the question, and you'll do much better.

And a 700 in math for grad school in math? You had better score at least a 780 if you want admitted to a decent school... the GRE only tests high school level math, so any other math major is going to be able to ace the math.

Anyhow, there's some discussion on here about grad school, and I can say that getting into grad school is very competitive these days... especially if you want in a top school or want funded. I am starting a PhD program at a university ranked in the top 20 in the world in computer science in the fall, and getting in was not easy at all. First off, you are expected to have excellent grades, we're talking like a 3.8+ gpa. You must score well on the tests GRE and subject GRE... and have excellent letters of recommendation from profs who are well-known in their field and know you well. Also, it doesn't hurt to already have published at least a paper or two in a respected conference or journal.

I didn't have all that coming out of undergrad, so I applied for masters programs at lesser ranked schools, and while there I got to know more profs, published a couple of papers, and pulled my grades up. Working on my masters has been a great experience, and I am 100% sure I want a PhD now. Grad school is tough and takes a lot of dedication.

OK sorry for the rambling... final point: grad school is awesome but it's tough to get in and a lot of work once there.

Yes, I agree with much of what you've said. I'm aiming for graduate studies in Economics, and my target score on the GRE is a 750 on both sections. The math on the GRE is should not be diffficult for any Math Major, and you're right, for Grad School in Math, a 780-800 makes more sense.

I, too have decided that a PhD makes the most sense for my interests. The research/teaching opportunities at a Top 20 school are unmatched. Grad school is getting more competitive, certainly. Well so is freshman admissions, and most professional graduate programs. The key, as always, is to ace the GRE, have a high GPA, get good recommendations, and be published. That forumula hasn't changed.
Like any other undergrad, I'm doing my best to get noticed by faculuty, and admissions folk. It's going to be difficult certainly, but if it's what you want... well, you get the idea. 

[andy]

Good to hear that you're looking into the PhD... for me, in computer science, I realized that I hate programming, but love the math side of computer science, so a PhD is the natural choice.

As far as getting noticed by faculty, I suggest approaching a few of them and asking if they could use another member on their research team. Be prepared with your CV, transcripts, past projects and such when you do this. There's a high probability that you'll get turned down, but it never hurts to ask and if successful then you'll get to do research with them... which will lead to a better letter of recommendation

Anyhow, being the the U of Chicago will definitely improve your chances of getting into a top program as it's ranked very high in econ. Good luck with grad admissions! And all the fun stuff associated with them (GRE, the waiting, etc)

[Steve]

Good to hear that you're looking into the PhD... for me, in computer science, I realized that I hate programming, but love the math side of computer science, so a PhD is the natural choice.

As far as getting noticed by faculty, I suggest approaching a few of them and asking if they could use another member on their research team. Be prepared with your CV, transcripts, past projects and such when you do this. There's a high probability that you'll get turned down, but it never hurts to ask and if successful then you'll get to do research with them... which will lead to a better letter of recommendation

Anyhow, being the the U of Chicago will definitely improve your chances of getting into a top program as it's ranked very high in econ. Good luck with grad admissions! And all the fun stuff associated with them (GRE, the waiting, etc)

If you don't mind, at which Top 20 program are you going to matriculate in the Fall?

[Larry Rinkel]

No, not lately, and according to their site nothing is going on during the summer. But some of the Fall events are marked on my calendar.

Bruce Hodges and I go up there fairly regularly during concert season, should you like to meet.

[andy]

If you don't mind, at which Top 20 program are you going to matriculate in the Fall?

Ahh not a problem at all... actually don't know why I didn't mention it... I'm currently at Colorado State University, then I'm heading north to the University of Waterloo in Ontario this Fall. I'm pretty excited about it. In my specialization of computer science (databases) they are ranked even higher (~7 by one study back in '93 which is the best I could find). Anyhow, it's not like it's the numbers that are important, but unfortunately they matter for things like getting a job later... especially faculty positions.

Oh and a good thing is that Waterloo is close to the Toronto Symphony Orchestra

When would you being applying to grad schools?

[Steve]

I am only a second-year, so my date of matriculation is still some time away. 

[paul]

I study music at Juilliard in New York where I play the double bass. I'll be a second year undergraduate student this fall.

EDIT:

So, what about future plans after college? Anyone planning on pursuing Graduate School 

God yes.

[Larry Rinkel]

I study music at Juilliard in New York where I play the double bass. I'll be a second year undergraduate student this fall.

A lot of us are in or near New York. We should do lunch or something like that. Some years back, when the cast of characters was a bit different, a group got together for tapas at a place downtown on Lafayette Street. It was a lot of fun.

[Greta]

Popping in now that my schedule is closer to set. I have a long winded college career because of being out sick off and on and then changing my major, but this will be my last full-time year. Save finishing up a foreign language requirement.

I was a Music Ed. major, then switched to Marketing, and after being out for health stuff and surgery and all that now I'm coming back to finish as a BA in Music with Minor in Business.  Whew.  Which is great because eventually I want to get my MBA in Arts Administration, that's the field I'm most interested in.   

I go to Lamar University here in Southeast Texas, a nice mid-size/smallish school with friendly people. Excellent music program. I'm really excited to go back, today I had a lesson with my saxophone professor and we made some goals for this year. It looks like I will give a solo recital in the late spring, even though I'm not really required to. And it appears I may take conducting in the spring. 

For fall classes will be, band and chamber music stuff, music history (up to turn of the century), Psych, Geology, and for the moment, German, unless Spanish opens up.       

Brian_rein will be quite close to me at Rice, 90 min away. Brian, we may see each other at the Houston Symphony concerts, full time students with ID can go for $8, definitely look into that.