Prokofiev Op.100

[Todd]

Yes, this is very fine and was my favourite until I tried Concertgebouw/Ashkenazy which I marginally prefer now.  But Levine's is certainly the most hefty recording.If

Ashkenazy's Prokofiev Symphonies set is one of the best things he's done.  If Levine is to be smote, Ashkenazy is at least an acceptable foe.

[snyprrr]

Ashkenazy's Prokofiev Symphonies set is one of the best things he's done.  If Levine is to be smote, Ashkenazy is at least an acceptable foe.

He surprised me with an outstanding DSCH15. I was going to discount his 5th,... buuut,... I'm hearing outrageously good things about 6-7 with Cleveland (only criticism is he takes first mvmt. of 7 just a shade slow?). I'm also thinking about his 'Sinfonia-Concertante' with Lynn Harrell- it just seems his later Decca recordings are many times in the demonstration class, hmm?

I like all you have to do is mention Ashkenazy now and I'm sold (though I'd heard some criticism of his 5th somewhere).

Levine was too powerful for me, waaah.

[snyprrr]

What about that outrageously slow Yoel Levi??

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Levine was too powerful for me, waaah.

I used to have the Levine. It didn't grab me, either.

[snyprrr]

I used to have the Levine. It didn't grab me, either.

You'd call Sym. 5 'Apollonian'... like Stravinsky's 'Apollo'? Very distant portrait of heroic Man? It has 'An' emotion, but it surely isn't a Personal Emotionalism... it's very distanced,... played "just so" it could probably be the Perfect Space Music?

I really need a PERSONAL performance of this piece now... it probably doesn't matter whether it's "right" or "wrong", just as long as it's The One4Me,... though I'm sure I'd respond to more than one treatment.

I haaave to ask again about Yoel Levi and these 'Sanderling Slow' movements: yea or nay? Sarge?

[snyprrr]

I used to have the Levine. It didn't grab me, either.

Oh, pleeease tell how the Muti is-

and, thanks for the Leinsdorf recommends. That's certainly a contender's choice!



btw- everyone- I picked Ozawa to take me to opening night! I may still get Ashkenazy as a foil. And these would only be for initial listening response- I think this is the kind of Symphony I could enjoy having lots around, like 'Le Sacre'. But I know I'm not enjoying the overtly "physical" performances (Levine, Szell), though, I admit that this must be a Subjective Symphony par-excellence (meaning everyone's ALLOWED to "see it their way"- just for the yuks!).


No one has mention the Levi/Atlanta slow-fest! yay or nay?

[TheGSMoeller]

Oh, pleeease tell how the Muti is-

Dark and powerful with using middle of the road tempi, nothing too jarring in terms of interpretation but boasts an impressive display of dynamic shifting from the players. The Philadelphia Sound when Muti was their leader is remarkable, so balanced and transparent with no line going unnoticed, Phillips excellent recording plays a big part in this.
For me it stands as a strong choice, not only for a good 5th, but also because of getting Meeting of the Volga and the Don, Op. 130 as a filler.
It can be found cheap/used and more than worth it.

[snyprrr]

Dark and powerful with using middle of the road tempi, nothing too jarring in terms of interpretation but boasts an impressive display of dynamic shifting from the players. The Philadelphia Sound when Muti was their leader is remarkable, so balanced and transparent with no line going unnoticed, Phillips excellent recording plays a big part in this.
For me it stands as a strong choice, not only for a good 5th, but also because of getting Meeting of the Volga and the Don, Op. 130 as a filler.
It can be found cheap/used and more than worth it.

I'd like to offer you a cigarette after that! SOLD!! (shhh, can't say MOR around Sarge!)



My theory is is that the Time/Speed Continuum 'comes together' around the 9-10 minute mark. If you look at the fast movements of this Symphony, and see that everyone is with a minute of each other- and yet, perhaps, there is not much discernible difference in the effect- this is the Time/Speed 'Sweet Spot':

obviously, a 3 minute piece, if a minute were added, would be catastrophic... if a 30 minute piece, it wouldn't be noticed,... right around 9-10 is when all this  ineffable stuff happens.,.. uh, you know what I'm saying holmes?

This Symphony is a BlackHole of Time/Space Sweet Spots! Like no other I can think of ...

[snyprrr]

How are those first notes written? (the intro to the first movement-such a tricky 'feel')

How do you actually hear that opening in your head? When taken very fast it certainly has a totally different character than when taken very slow.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Oh, pleeease tell how the Muti is-

Like GS said above Muti's performance is extremely well recorded: it's up close and personal, with much warmth. And I also agree it's very worthwhile hearing the music as it's darting around from section to section in such detail - like glow-in-the-dark body paint in motion.

But beyond that my rec of the Martinon still stands. Despite the somewhat dated sound Martinon is excellent at painting a colorful portrait of the music, partly because of the squeaky and squawky French winds and partly because the overall sound he generates is very see-through. I really enjoy the detail.   

and, thanks for the Leinsdorf recommends. That's certainly a contender's choice!

You're welcome.

[TheGSMoeller]

But beyond that my rec of the Martinon still stands. Despite the somewhat dated sound Martinon is excellent at painting a colorful portrait of the music, partly because of the squeaky and squawky French winds and partly because the overall sound he generates is very see-through. I really enjoy the detail.   

Never listened to Martinon's recordings of Prokofiev, it's available on Spotify so I'll give them a go. Correction: the disc with ORTF National Orchestra is on Spotify, I don't think that's the one you were referring to.

Thanks for the recs, DD.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Never listened to Martinon's recordings of Prokofiev, it's available on Spotify so I'll give them a go. Correction: the disc with ORTF National Orchestra is on Spotify, I don't think that's the one you were referring to.

Thanks for the recs, DD.

Yeah, the Martinon/Testament disc is an earlier recording and with a different orchestra: the very regal-sounding Orchestre de la Société des Concerts du Conservatoire.

I've never heard Martinon's ORTF Prokofiev although there was some chatter about it not long ago on another Prokofiev thread.

[Sergeant Rock]

I'd like to offer you a cigarette after that! SOLD!! (shhh, can't say MOR around Sarge!)

Yes you can    I have thirteen op.100s that range from Szell to Kitajenko (next to Levi the slowest in the first movement). I enjoy them all. But you ask for a single recommendation, and that recommendation from me is Szell despite it's seemingly extreme speeds (which, I think, do not sound extreme within Szell's overall conception of the work). But maybe a MOR version would be better for you if you only want one.

This Symphony is a BlackHole of Time/Space Sweet Spots! Like no other I can think of ...

I don't agree. I think the symphony can take a wide range of tempi and sound good in any of them.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

I haaave to ask again about Yoel Levi and these 'Sanderling Slow' movements: yea or nay? Sarge?

I don't have Levi but Kitajenko sounds fine in the first movement as does Weller in the Third. But you know I'm no help to you. I'm just not as concerned about some holy grail of the perfect tempo. I respond to, and enjoy the variety and range of interpretation. To me that's what makes classical music endlessly fascinating.

Sarge

[vandermolen]

My favourite, most exciting performance, is Rozhdestvensky with the USSR SO, which I had on an old EMI/Melodiya LP. I think that it is only available on CD as part of a boxed set:
[asin]B004FSJPG8[/asin]

[Brian]

Sarge, out of curiosity, what could we say is a piece that does NOT work well in a range of different tempos?

[Sergeant Rock]

Sarge, out of curiosity, what could we say is a piece that does NOT work well in a range of different tempos?

If you would have asked me 10 years ago I'd have an answer for you. Asked me 20 years ago and I'd have been dogmatic about some music...but now? no, I can't think of anything that doesn't work at different tempos, providing the listener has an open mind and no preconceived idea of how something should go. If everyone played Beethoven at his metronome markings, how boring would that be? snyprrr claims "the music wants to be played at the speed it was written"...but even if Prokofiev had left us a recording showing us precisely how he wanted the music played, would we want everyone to slavishly follow that example? And anyway, I reserve the right to disregard the composer's intentions.

Sarge

[snyprrr]

I'm not sure I understand the ending to No.5. All of a sudden the sarcastic raspberries begin, and this Minimalist/Futurist machine music starts, Industrial,... and then,... pffft, done??? Huh?

[Brian]

I'm not sure I understand the ending to No.5. All of a sudden the sarcastic raspberries begin, and this Minimalist/Futurist machine music starts, Industrial,... and then,... pffft, done??? Huh?

It seems like a less extreme version of what you hear at the end of Schubert's String Quintet D.956, where the mostly joyous finale suddenly ends on a really frightening bit of discord and then "... pffft, done"!

[snyprrr]

It seems like a less extreme version of what you hear at the end of Schubert's String Quintet D.956, where the mostly joyous finale suddenly ends on a really frightening bit of discord and then "... pffft, done"!

interesting

how does it make you feel? I was kinda like, wtf- this ain't no classical ending to a soviet symphony- how could he possibly get away with such seemingly flagrant raspberry? Surely Khrennikov heard this as being cheeky, no? ARREST HIM!! ARREST HIM NOOOW!!