Hello

[chadfeldheimer]

Thanks for all the Martinu recommendations. I'll definetely give these works a try. 

[Mirror Image]

Both of the Martinů recommendations are beauties. I'd also add the Nonet (no. 2).

+ 1 I would also add the Oboe Concerto and Magic Nights, but there's SO MANY good ones from Martinu (as we both know) that I'm afraid if I continue to type in this message it will only get longer and, thus, resulting in quite a problematic post.

[chadfeldheimer]

Does anyone know this box-set from Brilliant classics? The recordings seem to be identical with the ones from the BIS series of Martinu-Symphonies also with Neeme Järvi/Bamberger Symphoniker.

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[North Star]

I'm sure they're the same recordings.

That said, I'm not sure if you want to start exploring Martinů with a set of symphonies (and I'd recommend Neumann or Belohlavek if you did..) - here are a few suggestions

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[Ken B]

Does anyone know this box-set from Brilliant classics? The recordings seem to be identical with the ones from the BIS series of Martinu-Symphonies also with Neeme Järvi/Bamberger Symphoniker.

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Yes, licenced from BIS
A bit disappointing too. Chandos is better.

[chadfeldheimer]

On composers, musicians, later developments? Not really .. hugely influential. If you're talking about box office .. 20th century classical music, especially post-war music has largely been marginalized, but things are changing .. it will take time.

I would agree, if influence on other classical composers is meant. So many cited SH as an influence. To name a few: Luc Ferrari, Ligeti, Lutoslawski, Birtwistle, Ferneyhough, Dillon, Lachenmann, Harvey, Carter, even Stravinsky (for Agon, he even organized listening sessions when new Stockhausen records were released) and not to forget his influence on his peers (Nono, Boulez, Berio ..) at Darmstadt, which was vice versa of course. Till the 70s his influence was really enormous. Maybe since then it has diminished a bit in the region of classical music. In the more experimental regions of pop/rock and jazz he is as influencal as ever before with the likes of Sonic Youth, Coil, Aphex Twin, Radiohead, Björk, even Public Enemy (!) ... citing him as an important influence, but that's probably not the right forum for this.

[chadfeldheimer]

I'm sure they're the same recordings.

That said, I'm not sure if you want to start exploring Martinů with a set of symphonies (and I'd recommend Neumann or Belohlavek if you did..) - here are a few suggestions

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[asin]B002DMIIUW[/asin]

Ok - then I better leave buying the CD-set. A large set of rather weak performanced symphonies could turn me away from an otherwise good composer. Thanks for the recommendations.

[Karl Henning]

I would agree, if influence on other classical composers is meant. So many cited SH as an influence. To name a few: Luc Ferrari, Ligeti, Lutoslawski, Birtwistle, Ferneyhough, Dillon, Lachenmann, Harvey, Carter, even Stravinsky (for Agon, he even organized listening sessions when new Stockhausen records were released)

I should hardly consider that an influence on Agon, or even on Stravinsky in general.

[chadfeldheimer]

I should hardly consider that an influence on Agon, or even on Stravinsky in general.

There was a time when Stravinsky was very much interested in serial music, where he even felt a bit old-fashioned in comparison, and as a result he wrote pieces like Aron. It is reported that he liked Gruppen very much and as I wrote before arranged listening sessions with Stockhausen records. Of course Agon does not sound like Gruppen or Kontrapunkte but for me there is an influence noticeable.

[Karl Henning]

Yes, you're certainly right that Stravinsky became interested in serialism, and made a point of hearing music from the up-and-coming generation.  That doesn't translate specifically to any Stockhausen influence on Agon;  but if you hear any, I am glad to consider your case!  Bring it 

[chadfeldheimer]

Yes, you're certainly right that Stravinsky became interested in serialism, and made a point of hearing music from the up-and-coming generation.  That doesn't translate specifically to any Stockhausen influence on Agon;  but if you hear any, I am glad to consider your case!  Bring it 

Well - unfortunately I forgot where I read about Stockhausen's influence on Stravinsky's Agon. At Wikipedia there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlheinz_Stockhausen is written about an probable influence on Threni and Movements. Hence Agon is from the same time an influence on Agon is not unlikely. Also I am quite sure that I remember right in that point.

[Karl Henning]

Yes, influence doesn't necessarily translate into COPY or IMITATE especially at this level of music making .. Igor admired Carré even more. KS was definitely an influence on IS to a certain extent .. there was a fascinating radio programme hosted by Robin Maconie a few years back which was a little more detailed & specific regarding the musical influences of that time ..

You are at your funniest when you are having a go at being professorial, with your all-caps.  Unlike you, I am an actual composer, and I learnt long ago that influence is not necessarily a matter of copying/imitation.  As if you could lecture me (or anyone) on the art of composition.

Thanks as ever for the chuckle.

[Karl Henning]

Well - unfortunately I forgot where I read about Stockhausen's influence on Stravinsky's Agon. At Wikipedia there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlheinz_Stockhausen is written about an probable influence on Threni and Movements.

Well, a proper source would be nice;  you understand how dubious Wikipedia's reliability is.  James could have edited the article, for instance, and written anything that comes into his head.

If you scare up a source, I am interested, certainly.

[chadfeldheimer]

Well, a proper source would be nice;  you understand how dubious Wikipedia's reliability is.  James could have edited the article, for instance, and written anything that comes into his head.

If you scare up a source, I am interested, certainly.

Sorry. I think double checking every comment I post in a forum and being able to give scientifically accepted sources would be a bit too much. That is a standard most dissertations do not achieve and it would also despoil the fun a bit, or?

[Karl Henning]

Oh, I'm all for the fun, and do not mean to place you under any obligation!  If at some point you remember the source, great.

Meanwhile, you will grant me my reasonable and musical doubt that there is any Stockhausen influence on Stravinsky.  I had a quick look in the Walsh bio, but there are other pages listed in the index which I shall peruse.

James, well, James is so besotted, he'd see Stockhausen as influencing Dolly Parton, once you get him wound up.

[chadfeldheimer]

Oh, I'm all for the fun, and do not mean to place you under any obligation!  If at some point you remember the source, great.

Meanwhile, you will grant me my reasonable and musical doubt that there is any Stockhausen influence on Stravinsky.  I had a quick look in the Walsh bio, but there are other pages listed in the index which I shall peruse.

James, well, James is so besotted, he'd see Stockhausen as influencing Dolly Parton, once you get him wound up.

I'm glad to hear you are all for the fun. Please let us know when you find something.

[mn dave]

Here it says he influenced Stravinsky.

http://www.artandpopularculture.com/Karlheinz_Stockhausen

[Karl Henning]

Here it says he influenced Stravinsky.

http://www.artandpopularculture.com/Karlheinz_Stockhausen

Thanks, dude. It says no more than has been repeated here: an assertion of influence on certain pieces, but no musical points to make it anything more than an assertion;  and the report of Stravinsky organizing listening parties, which is certainly interest in hearing the music. Which is not the same as influence.

That article has too much of a fanzine feel (which would not stand in the way of Wikipedia regarding it as a "source").

Meanwhile, James, the Stockhausen expert, doesn't give us musical substance, either, instead offering a D.I.Y. home lecture on COPYING and IMITATING.  Which has the look of conceding my point.

[Mirror Image]

Stockhausen could or could not have influenced Stravinsky and even if he did so what? There is no trace of Stockhausen in Stravinsky. Stravinsky's music was always well...Stravinsky's music. He sounded like no one but himself and he carried this ingenuity with him until the very end.

[Ken B]

Stockhausen could or could not have influenced Stravinsky and even if he did so what? There is no trace of Stockhausen in Stravinsky. Stravinsky's music was always well...Stravinsky's music. He sounded like no one but himself and he carried this ingenuity with him until the very end.

Yes, one of the strongest musical personalities.