'Heaven on Earth: The Rise and Fall of Socialism'

[snyprrr]

Has anyone seen this? I'm half way through, and I've sure learned a few things to add to the previous WWII watching. Did you know:

1) 'Socialism', in it's current form (according to the vidi) comes to us in the form of...English/Scottish?... so-and-so Owens, whose factory in Scotland was a model of its time (1825?) as far as the workers were concerned. Anyhow, he came to America and bought a town and started an "all things in common" community. mmm... it didn't work out too well....

buuut... two Hipsters (and they most assuredly WERE) by the names of Engels and Marx, caught wind,... and.... blah blah...

2) Marx- what?- did not work a day in his life? and was Engel's 'ward'... and, how many of his children committed suicide?

3) Lenin---- what a prick!! Obviously never got his ass beat...

4) Stalin already covered- Human Monster... absolute archetype anti-christ... beaurocratic genocide... "just kill SOMEONE!!"...



7) Nyrere?- Tanzania--- seems to start off with the proverbial "good intentions"--- Africans ALREADY live in "comm"unities--- but, apparently government ownership of ALL things doesn't goive anyone pride to do a good job? OH- and how was it supposed to survive without all their Foreign Aid (welfare)



It appears from this vidi that Socialism always seems to require OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY simply to make ends meet.




11) Israel kibbutz--- the Socialist jews who came to populate the kibbiutz system lived in the less desirable corners of the border, and fed and clothed Israel and seemed to be the most happy with the Socialist lifestyle (kids living with kids instead of parents--- clothes stored in the clothes store)--- but, apparently they got perks from the Socialist government until Conservative Begin came to power and cut off the dole. You hear people chant- "death to islam AND Leftists" meaning, ultimately... jew vs jew in the end (Wolfowicz vs. Fierstein)


17) the USA didn't (hrrr hmmm... at first) take to Socialism, because "Americanism" was ITSELF a Unifying Thingy for the workers to corral around...

18) the UK, right after the WWII, elected the first "Labor" (read "Socialist") government, which it held until the striking 70s when the Unions were King, and Thatcher rose to power... along with Reagen...






anyhow, I go on and on...

HERE'S A NUGGET:

After Owens's 'community' folded in the 1820s (30s?), he put the blame on the "quality" of people that had been used for the experimental community (Intellectuals and such Dreamers and Radicals), whereas Owens's son said it like this:

"(loosely) when you have a system that makes everyone "equal"- the hard worker, and the loafer alike- it will ALWAYS be that, in the end, all the hard workers will leave, leaving only the lame, lazy, and larcenous."







I know people make a distinction between 'Socialism' and 'Communism', and there are a lot of wordsWordsWORDS with no end, BUT, the concept that the Government (of the Prole Vanguard (hey guys! guess what? that's US, says Lenin ("we' know better than you")))Owns Everything is just such a badBadBAD Idea--- and the excuse is always, "They didn't give it 'time' to work ("they didn't kill enough people")).

The whole bunch, .....Stalin, Mao---- wanted to 'recreate' Humanity in THEIR Image. It seems that Socialism is a "Man Is God" RELIGION. What say you?

(and the vidi shows how atheist "meetings" ('services') had "lectures" ('sermons') and sang hymns (to 'Man', not 'God')








23) Engels stated that, at some point, the Capitalist oppression of the Worker would yield a worker revolt. When that didn't happen by 1900, Lenin said, fuck the common man- WE (Lenin and his merry merry band... mostly jews??) are the Vanguard of the Workers (the only ones who have time to sit around and come up with this stuff) so WE WILL START THE REVOLUTAION.

So, if it ain't broke, break it, and then fix it back up in Your Image?

24) the successor, and Theorist, of Engels and Marx, so-and-so Bernstein, as he was collating all their works, started to realize that they were WRONG. Oops!! The Pope Ain't Catholic Any More!!




33) There Is No Fight Club

[snyprrr]

Even in the New Testament, in Acts, when they had "all things in common",... mm, it didn't work out.

[snyprrr]

oh, I see Brian. I'll get at least one Post!!

[jochanaan]

...anyhow, I go on and on...

Word.

Actually, the "voluntary communism" of the early Christians worked very well--as long as the presence and spirit of the original apostles, who had known Jesus of Nazareth personally, was strong.  But most practical "socialist" systems do seem to come down to "All Animals Are Equal, But Some Are More Equal Than Others."  At least after a while.

The trouble with human governments is just that: they are run by humans.

I do admit that I like the phrase "lame, lazy and larcenous."

[North Star]

Communism might work in societies whose population is less than Dunbar's number.

[Karl Henning]

Your timing is mist curious, snypsss, as I am this very week re-reading Hawthorne's The Blithedale Romance . . . .

[...] a work of fiction based on Hawthorne's recollections of Brook Farm, a short-lived agricultural and educational commune where Hawthorne lived from April to November 1841. The commune, an attempt at an intellectual utopian society, brought together many famous Transcendentalists such as Ralph Waldo Emerson and Margaret Fuller. In the novel's preface, Hawthorne describes his memories of this temporary home as "essentially a daydream, and yet a fact" which he employs as "an available foothold between fiction and reality." His feelings of affectionate scepticism toward the commune are reflected not only in the novel, but also in his journal entries and in the numerous letters he wrote from Brook Farm to Sophia Peabody, his future wife.

[snyprrr]

Your timing is mist curious, snypsss, as I am this very week re-reading Hawthorne's The Blithedale Romance . . . .

As I was reading that, I saw it transformed into a show, starring Ted Danson and Alan Alda and Hal Holbrook and Sam Waterston and...

Word.

Actually, the "voluntary communism" of the early Christians worked very well--as long as the presence and spirit of the original apostles, who had known Jesus of Nazareth personally, was strong.  But most practical "socialist" systems do seem to come down to "All Animals Are Equal, But Some Are More Equal Than Others."  At least after a while.

The trouble with human governments is just that: they are run by humans.

I do admit that I like the phrase "lame, lazy and larcenous."

Yes yes yes

Sure, the idea of being in a community of like minded individuals SEEMS like a Great Plan- sincerely- but yes, just read that Hawthorne quote, like it's all too good to last- all those like minded people walking around in the same stupor ("wow, look at all these people like MEEEEE!!!!)... without the Guidance of Christ it develoves into Me-ism. Me Me Me


Here's one of my favourites:

Proverbs 18:1-2

"Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom.

A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself."


ME ME ME










anyhow, that's for the Replies!! tis an interesting topic... timely too!!

[snyprrr]

What I thought was interesting was how the vidi said that Fascism was actually an offshoot of Socialism/Marx-Lenin.... and the vidi only goes on to mention two names as being related to the word Fascism, Hitler and Mussolini (who supplanted 'The Party' with 'The Nation'), but, since these two both died, the vidi says that true National-Socialistic Fascism dies with them... and they do make the point that both men WERE Socialists. So, just like Anglican is practically the same as Catholic (but with divorce), so is Fascism and Communism the same thing but except for a country's border?

So that's why all our world... errr... leaders want this open borders policy... wait...

(can someone tell me exactly what's happening with the US border? Isn't a country supposed to "protect" its border? Am I missing something here?)

[Florestan]

Mandatory reading for anyone interested in the topic at hand.