Tao Te Ching

[vandermolen]

I have always admired this ancient Chinese Classic text.

'Always choose as your leader one who would rather be excused'

Any other admirers?

[kishnevi]

Me.  But you remind me it has been too long since I read it.

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

Twenty years ago I read it quickly more for pleasure and technical admiration than for thought, but even so some passages stood out and follow me about :

"We put thirty spokes together and call it a wheel; But it is on the space where there is nothing that the usefulness of the wheel depends. We turn clay to make a vessel; But it is on the space where there is nothing that the usefulness of the vessel depends. We pierce doors and windows to make a house; And it is on these spaces where there is nothing that the usefulness of the house depends. Therefore just as we take advantage of what is, we should recognize the usefulness of what is not." (chap. 11, tr. Waley - I like his translations of Chinese poems as well).

I've read more widely and deeply in Buddhist texts. 

[Ken B]

Twenty years ago I read it quickly more for pleasure and technical admiration than for thought, but even so some passages stood out and follow me about :

"We put thirty spokes together and call it a wheel; But it is on the space where there is nothing that the usefulness of the wheel depends. We turn clay to make a vessel; But it is on the space where there is nothing that the usefulness of the vessel depends. We pierce doors and windows to make a house; And it is on these spaces where there is nothing that the usefulness of the house depends. Therefore just as we take advantage of what is, we should recognize the usefulness of what is not." (chap. 11, tr. Waley - I like his translations of Chinese poems as well).

I've read more widely and deeply in Buddhist texts.

It's like Webern. The silence is where the good stuff is.

[springrite]

It's like Webern. The silence is where the good stuff is.

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[vandermolen]

Thanks for replies 

Am at work but will respond at greater length (which sounds un-Taoist!) over the weekend.

[springrite]

Thanks for replies 

Am at work but will respond at greater length (which sounds un-Taoist!) over the weekend.

It is somewhat longer than the Yogasutra though.

[vandermolen]

It is somewhat longer than the Yogasutra though.

[TheGSMoeller]

"He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know."

I think that's from it.

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

It may be interesting to reflect on just how close Igor was to the Tao :

"My freedom consists in my moving about within the narrow frame that I have assigned myself for each one of my undertakings. I shall go even further : my freedom will be so much the greater and more meaningful the more narrowly I limit my field of action and the more I surround myself with obstacles. Whatever diminishes constraint diminishes strength.  The more constraints one imposes, the more one frees one's self of the claims that shackle the spirit." Poetics of Music.

[Moonfish]

I have always admired this ancient Chinese Classic text.

'Always choose as your leader one who would rather be excused'

Very true!!!  Although it sounds a bit utopian.....

[vandermolen]

Very true!!!  Although it sounds a bit utopian.....

Perhaps, although it ties in with a comment from Mick Jagger who, in an interview, was asked what he thought the most overrated 'virtue' is replied 'a natural born leader'. My experience of dealing with management would agree with this.

Great Leaders are hardly noticed.
The Wise are loved and praised.

Dictators are feared.
Hypocrites are despised.

The Wise promise nothing,
And so they are trusted.

When success is achieved without too much direction,
everyone says: 'It just happened!'

Tao Te Ching, chapter 17 (Timothy Freke's version)

[Ken B]

Perhaps, although it ties in with a comment from Mick Jagger who, in an interview, was asked what he thought the most overrated 'virtue' is replied 'a natural born leader'. My experience of dealing with management would agree with this.

Great Leaders are hardly noticed.
The Wise are loved and praised.

Dictators are feared.
Hypocrites are despised.

The Wise promise nothing,
And so they are trusted.

When success is achieved without too much direction,
everyone says: 'It just happened!'

Tao Te Ching, chapter 17 (Timothy Freke's version)

Alas the Tao Te Ching errs again. In every election incumbents usually win.

[vandermolen]

Alas the Tao Te Ching errs again. In every election incumbents usually win.

An interesting point but I think that the idea is still valid.

[Moonfish]

An interesting point but I think that the idea is still valid.

I think there is a disconnect between the public and the recognition of wisdom (in the US at least). Besides, the incumbents win because "Great leaders are hardly noticed".   

[springrite]

Well, no one is accusing elected officials to be "Great Leaders".

[vandermolen]

Well, no one is accusing elected officials to be "Great Leaders".

Yes, very true. Certainly in Britain! 

[ibanezmonster]

I have always admired this ancient Chinese Classic text.

'Always choose as your leader one who would rather be excused'

Any other admirers?

That's what I've always believed. If you're a little bit too eager to be in the business of controlling people's lives, there may be something off with you.

Although I read "excused" as "executed" at first. 

[vandermolen]

That's what I've always believed. If you're a little bit too eager to be in the business of controlling people's lives, there may be something off with you.

Although I read "excused" as "executed" at first. 

I completely agree with you.