Buying Flac Music Files - Audio Watermarks?

[bluto32]

I am considering buying some music in Flac format, as the CDs are either out of print or too expensive/tricky to get hold of.
Unfortunately, according to some sources there seems to be an issue with Universal Music Group - who own Decca/Philips and DG - altering their Flac files by means of an audio watermark. This is supposed to help combat piracy in some way I don't understand, but the watermark can be heard:

www.mattmontag.com/music/universals-audible-watermark

It isn't clear which online shops suffer from such watermarking.

Some time ago I emailed both the main Universal Music site and also DeccaClassics to ask if the Flac files bought directly from the online Universal Music Store were processed with such a watermark. I got no response from either!

So... has anyone here bought Flac files from either of these sites:

1) Universal themselves, via Decca Classics or Deutsche Grammophon
2) Presto Classical

If so, can you tell (or do you happen to know/be able to verify) if the files have been watermarked?
A bit-for-bit comparison of WAV files from the CD and from Flac would be ideal, although I realise it's unlikely someone has bought both a CD and Flac of the same music!

Bluto

[CRCulver]

Why buy FLACs and worry about the watermark, when you can simply get FLACs ripped from a CD through a torrent site? There are very few, if any, FLACs being sold by labels that aren't available through classical filesharing fora, and these torrents usually come with a log of the conversion to FLAC, so you know you're getting the pure CD sound.

[Purusha]

I bought a couple of Reger cds from Prestoclassical. I can't hear any water marks, perhaps you guys have better ears. I've uploaded a track for testing:

http://www.filedropper.com/01-allegro

This was the first time i ever bought music from a digital store. I guess i'm gonna have to make it the last if this is a common problem.

[Purusha]

Why buy FLACs and worry about the watermark, when you can simply get FLACs ripped from a CD through a torrent site? There are very few, if any, FLACs being sold by labels that aren't available through classical filesharing fora, and these torrents usually come with a log of the conversion to FLAC, so you know you're getting the pure CD sound.

Torrents have a very limited selection. Much of the stuff i buy this days is often rather hard to find and torrents have rarely been of any help.

[Wakefield]

 I downloaded your file, but I can't listen to anything because it's blank. Probably, there is some anticopy program involved. 

[Purusha]

I downloaded it myself and it plays fine. Something is fishy here.

[Pat B]

I am considering buying some music in Flac format, as the CDs are either out of print or too expensive/tricky to get hold of.
Unfortunately, according to some sources there seems to be an issue with Universal Music Group - who own Decca/Philips and DG - altering their Flac files by means of an audio watermark. This is supposed to help combat piracy in some way I don't understand, but the watermark can be heard:

www.mattmontag.com/music/universals-audible-watermark

Wow. That is awful. The entire point of watermarking is for it to be undetectable. And you would think that the labels would not want to make their product less appealing than the pirate alternative.

The major labels shoot themselves in the foot yet again.

[Daverz]

I have only one set of FLACs that I downloaded directly from Universal: Bohm's Bruckner 3.  I didn't hear evidence of tampering, but I may not have been listening for the particular "fingerprints" of watermarking, though I was aware of the issue.

Lossless Universal recordings are not generally downloadable in the U.S. from other vendors anyway, the exception being HDTracks, which only has a small subset of the lossless stuff from Universal that, say, Qobuz offers.

[CRCulver]

Torrents have a very limited selection. Much of the stuff i buy this days is often rather hard to find and torrents have rarely been of any help.

You are not looking in the right place. The mods here probably won't let me share an exact URL, but there's a well-known Russian torrent tracker popular among classical music fans that has virtually every digital-era release (and a fair few vinyl rips) from the Universal-owned labels.

[Gurn Blanston]

You are not looking in the right place. The mods here probably won't let me share an exact URL, but there's a well-known Russian torrent tracker popular among classical music fans that has virtually every digital-era release (and a fair few vinyl rips) from the Universal-owned labels.

You are correct on both counts: best not to share a link, although a resourceful person can find it easily enough, and indeed, a quick browse through shows they have every CD I ever heard of on those labels and others. Let your conscience be your guide. 

[Purusha]

Is this water mark thing a problem with music owned by this Universals group or are other companies employing similar shenanigans?

This was going to be my next purchase:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teuffel-Trio-Parnassus-Reger/dp/B0000061YN/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1418653644&sr=8-2&keywords=reger+parnassus

The album retails for a real high price because its out of print, and digital stores only have it in mp3, no flac or lossless. Is Gold DG a Univerals label?

[Wakefield]

Is this water mark thing a problem with music owned by this Universals group or are other companies employing similar shenanigans?

This was going to be my next purchase:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teuffel-Trio-Parnassus-Reger/dp/B0000061YN/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1418653644&sr=8-2&keywords=reger+parnassus

The album retails for a real high price because its out of print, and digital stores only have it in mp3, no flac or lossless. Is Gold DG a Univerals label?

About MDG: AFAIK, Musikproduktion Dabringhaus und Grimm (MDG) has nothing to do with Universal, but these days isn't easy to be sure. It's a sort of audiophile label with a quite vast catalogue. I have several excellent disks by them, including a famous Telemann's Tafelmusik (complete) by the Camerata of the 18th Century, conducted by the flutist Konrad Hünteler.

About Reger/Trio Parnassus: I have purchased several disks on Starzik, a French digital store which offers a wide range of digital formats, including FLAC:

http://www.starzik.com/mp3/produits/Reger-Complete-Piano-Trios-1791545.html

Personally, I have a subscription on starzik.es

They sell free DRM files. 

[not edward]

Is Gold DG a Univerals label?

No, they're an indie label. The DG are the initials of the label's founders. Website: http://www.mdg.de/indexeng.htm

[Daverz]

You are correct on both counts: best not to share a link, although a resourceful person can find it easily enough, and indeed, a quick browse through shows they have every CD I ever heard of on those labels and others. Let your conscience be your guide. 

If no one is seeding the torrent, though, it's not really available.

Also, joining a torrent is not private.  Anyone can join the torrent and see your IP, like, say, someone who works for the RIAA who will then send your ISP a nastygram.  I suppose one can get around this by using a proxy; I haven't investigated.

[CRCulver]

If no one is seeding the torrent, though, it's not really available.

On the site I was referring to, things stay seeded. Even if there are no seeds when you open the torrent, let it run for a few days and someone will come along to upload it to you.

Also, joining a torrent is not private.  Anyone can join the torrent and see your IP, like, say, someone who works for the RIAA who will then send your ISP a nastygram.  I suppose one can get around this by using a proxy; I haven't investigated.

I'm in Eastern Europe, and quite a few people here on GMG are similarly based outside the US. ISPs generally don't care (in fact, ISPs here depend on widespread piracy to upsell you to faster plans), and in any event, those automated checks in Western countries for filesharing tend to bust people for mainstream pop music and Hollywood films, not obscure classical recordings.

[Daverz]

On the site I was referring to, things stay seeded.

Good to know.

tend to bust people for mainstream pop music and Hollywood films, not obscure classical recordings.

That's true.  I think it was Showtime who sent my ISP the nastygram.

[torut]

Is this watermarked? I hear heavy distortions in the reverberations. The samples on iTunes store and Google Play sound the same.

Bartók: Mikrokosmos, Sz. 107 - Book 1 - No.1 Unison Melody (1) by Zoltán Kocsis
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0017MONP8/ref=dm_ws_tlw_trk1

However, I don't hear it with the sample on DG site. (CD 5 first track)
http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/cat/4756720

[bluto32]

Hmmm. Universal Music seem to have removed all downloads from their Decca Classics and Deutsche Grammophon sites. For the last few weeks, clicking on "Buy" brings up the usual links to Amazon and iTunes, but no "Download from Universal Music Store" option.

Thanks for all replies to my original post.

Bluto