Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites

[jlaurson]

E1: I feel like I'm sitting inside the cello, and the cello inside a bathtub or the bottom of a bottle. Well played but without distinction and acoustically displeasing by offering just too bloody much. Outrageously exaggerated trill somewhere in the Sarabande...

OK. A WORLD of DIFFERENCE, on proper equipment! We ought to throw any and all judgments I made without using the DAC.

Sarabande trill still there... and not quite as nice here, or captivating, than in the Prelude. Still good stuff, though. Rank 2


E2: Same. I really must not listen via this soundcard on the stupid computer. The boom of a Stradivari cello with the acoustic of a small public swimming hall. Makes EVERYTHING sound like it's bloody Heinrich Schiff. I can't distinguish anything with this shit... except pitch.

A bit heavy on the breathing here. Very heavy. Kind of disturbing, actually. Busy, not actually very fast. Sonically a happy medium between super-boomy / resonant and dry. Cello not too umphish... which is nice... but ultimately not enough personality to really rock my boat. Rank: 5


E3: Eeeeww. Old and ugly recording. I mean... thanks for rediscovering the score and all... and important and worthy and admirable. But it would be absurd to recommend  this as anything but a curiosity-item, today. Still better-sounding than the Harnoncourt recording, though.  Rank: 6


E4: Back in the tub and worse than ever, it seems. I kind of like the racing stripes that are being attached to the Prelude. A bit much, yes... but fun.

YES. NOW we are in the tub, indeed. Very resonant, in any case. Not as appalling anymore, now that the appropriate equipment has given it some space and distant that allows a fine tone to come out, with a slender quality ("Greek Maiden"). A bit fast, but not glib... I am reacting actually quite positively to it. Sarabande, as so often, becomes a little tedious after six to ten runs through it. Rank 3


E5: Tubbing. It's as if it didn't matter what I listened today, it all sounds like crap... and I can't even concentrate on the

Now this sounds regal and large and gorgeous... I love the opening rhythm of the bass line. Accented and driving, not droning. Impresses with the first notes. Consistently awakens me out of my slumber with the Prelude for doing everything as I like it. Rank 1


E6: Not quite to my taste. Simply noodling along. Certainly after E5. Not competitive on intonation or tone.

Rank: 4


E1: 2
E2: 5
E3: 6
E4: 3
E5: 1
E6: 4

or:

E5: 1
E1: 2
E4: 3
E6: 4
E2: 5
E3: 6

[kishnevi]

Okay, finally ready to record my vote.

F4 in first place
F6 in second
(Considerable gap here, those two stood out well above the rest)

F5 in third
F2 in fourth
F3 in fifth
F1 in sixth

I must admit that heavy breathing and aleatory percussion with the bow had a negative impact.  Perhaps some of these recordings were too closely miked.

[aukhawk]

OK thanks everyone for the recent flurry of votes. 
With 4 votes in for two of the groups I feel nearly ready to move on.  8 recordings will be eliminated and 6 of those seem clear now.
I really need at least one more voter for Group D though - and it might help to speed things along if I could ask for a volunteer to take it on as a 2nd group.  In the meantime of course lines are still open for further votes on all three groups - will no-one come off the fence about E4? -  - 4 votes, 4 3rd places - oh well, maybe in the next round ...

[aligreto]

OK thanks everyone for the recent flurry of votes. 
With 4 votes in for two of the groups I feel nearly ready to move on.  8 recordings will be eliminated and 6 of those seem clear now.
I really need at least one more voter for Group D though - and it might help to speed things along if I could ask for a volunteer to take it on as a 2nd group.  In the meantime of course lines are still open for further votes on all three groups - will no-one come off the fence about E4? -  - 4 votes, 4 3rd places - oh well, maybe in the next round ...

As a late comer to this I have yet to vote in round E so if you can send me the links at your leisure perhaps my vote can help to nudge it along.

[xochitl]

i can do group D

[jlaurson]

i can do group D

So can I.

[Pat B]

OK thanks everyone for the recent flurry of votes. 
With 4 votes in for two of the groups I feel nearly ready to move on.  8 recordings will be eliminated and 6 of those seem clear now.
I really need at least one more voter for Group D though - and it might help to speed things along if I could ask for a volunteer to take it on as a 2nd group.  In the meantime of course lines are still open for further votes on all three groups - will no-one come off the fence about E4? -  - 4 votes, 4 3rd places - oh well, maybe in the next round ...

I've listened to E1-4 and can do the other 2 by tomorrow.

EDIT: I was mistaken. I had only listened to the first three -- but I got the other three today.

[aukhawk]

Thanks Pat.  I look forward to it.
PMs sent to xochitl and aligreto.
E4 already has enough cred to go through even if someone now places it last - I just think its rather remarkable that in general, rankings are all over the place, but this one version seems to have cornered the 'not great, but not bad either' vote.
jlaurson you've already voted on group D!!    but thanks anyway 

[xochitl]

in order of preference

D5 - an angel came down with a heavenly cello, someone asked him if he knew bach and he replied "oh sure, he's pretty popular up there with the musicians, on saturdays we all hang out with ol johann s and play some tunes...actually, one of his is a favorite of mine" and proceeded to play the suites, to the amazement of all. fortunately for us someone recorded it for posterity. seriously! my life just improved from hearing this performance. nuff said (actually, II gigue was not at the level of the other clips -that would be 'best everrr', but still...). immediately searched spotify in desperation for a match, without luck

D1 - romantic and heavy, but it feels so micro-thought-out and delineated like it's been fully absorbed into the performer so i was totally engrossed instead of annoyed/disgusted. the phrasing was stunning (it's like EVERY SINGLE NOTE MATTERS!!!!FFS, not only that, but every note takes you to the next one with absolute inevitability), the sound itself is close to my ideal of what a cello should sound like: pinpoint intonation, trills that sing and dance, slightly dark but even and full across the range but with an edge. one of the greatest III preludes ive ever heard. definitely wanna know who this is.

D6 - solid in every way, but not very inspiring

D2 - so that was...strange. nimble but choppy, stuttery. dry as a bone. and kind of ugly.

D3 - elegant, (boring) MOR and unappealingly growly. fine sarabande but not enough to save it.

D4 - no

[aukhawk]

D4 - no

No?  Well I must say I'm shocked  - making this recording the only one out of all 18, to be placed plumb last by two listeners.  And I had money on it to make the final 4 ... 

Well that was quick, thanks for that, interesting comments too.  D5 is my perfect 'late night listening' version!

Right, voting on this round will close at the end of Wednesday, just in case there's anyone halfway through listening, please try to post your votes by then.
I'll post details of the 8 to be eliminated, a few hours after that. 
Pending any late voting upsets, it looks as though 2 firm GMG favourites are on their way out, along with two others that are highly respected, and an acknowledged classic recording.   4 of the 8 were placed 1st in group once, but last or nearly-last by everyone else.
One non-cello recording will go - though only just, as the highest scorer to be eliminated - but the other two did rather well in this round.

Round 2 will consist of 2 groups of 5.  The music will be Suite 6, the Prelude, Allemande, Courante and Gavottes.  A total of around 20 minutes though there are some wide variations in choice of tempi, especially in the Allemande. 
The final when we get to it will be 4 recordings (or possibly 5 if the voting is tight), of Suite 5.

Please let me know if you want to receive links for Round 2 - you can just mention it while commenting on the results later in the week, that'll be fine.  Thanks.

[Pat B]

E1 Reverby. Kinda slow. Slip at 1:12. Not wild about 1:30-1:40 exaggerated style. Nice ornamentations at 2:25 then has to rush to catch up a la B7. I don't like the harsh C-string sound at 2:38. What was that at 3:14? Is that supposed to be ar ornament? Note to performers: don't make your ornaments sound like flubs. Weird portamento at 4:07. Another weird thing at 6:00-6:03. I endured this to 9:20 and then stopped. This must be B7. How did we eliminate half of group B but not this one? After listening to the others, I went back and listened to the Gigue of this one, and I like the style more (it's on the dancier side, which didn't come across at all in the dirge-like Sarabande) but there are just too many WTF moments.

E2 Distant recording. SLOW. Played like a recital, not a dance. Of course some people like that but to me it's more solemn than I prefer in this music.

E3 Very abrupt acoustic change from E2 especially with the bold opening attack. Acoustic is strange but the C-string sound is nice and full. Again more recital than dance but more dramatic than E2. Probably B2. If so, I like it a bit better this time around but not by a lot.

E4 I listened to this last. It must be the spalla one. It's very good but some of the emphases are overly exaggerated as sometimes happens in the HIP world. Some interesting spiccato arpeggios 1:30-1:50 that really let me hear it differently.

E5 The Prelude and Saraband seemed good but not top-rank but the Minuets and Gigue were superb. Probably best C-string sound throughout. I really love 10:50-11:10. First listen had E4 out of order, but re-listening in normal order the fullness of tone is striking.

E6 recording is on the close side without the dry "practice room" feel. I like this, it's expressive but not in a Romanticized way. Emphases are made with dynamics more than agogics. Nice subtle ornamentation. Drawback is the Minuet I which starts out sounding a bit like a march (that happened on an eliminated performance in round 1 but I found it less effective here).

Ranking:
#1 E5
#2 (tie) E4, E6
#4 E3
#6 (tie) E1, E2

[xochitl]

well this is embarassing! so it seems that last night i was listening with a weird EQ setting that cut half the bass frequencies by 10db and spiked different parts of the treble and this being cello, i think it was quite relevant in my perceptions, especially the sound of period instruments (they sounded hollow and horrible). so after re-listening, a slightly altered order of preference
D5>D1=D2>D4=D3=D6

[aukhawk]

Wow, your slight demotion of D6 (from 3rd to 4th) has put it in grave danger!
And Pat's vote and comments (thanks) has saved a GMG favourite.

[banpuku]

Please add me to the list

[aukhawk]

Will do, links for the next round will be PM'd on Friday or Saturday, provided there are enough people 'in' - really needs at least 10 to make it viable.

[prémont]

Will do, links for the next round will be PM'd on Friday or Saturday, provided there are enough people 'in' - really needs at least 10 to make it viable.

I very much look forward to receive the links for the second round (and to see, which ones were excluded in the first round ).

[kishnevi]

I very much look forward to receive the links for the second round (and to see, which ones were excluded in the first round ).

Ditto.

[aukhawk]

Round 1 fallers:
Just taking the top 10 scorers gave me a problem, because there was a tie for 10th, impossible to separate.  Various solutions (take 12 instead of 10, take 8 instead of 10, run a lightning tie-break round) didn't appeal.
So instead, to retain 10 from 3 groups of 6, I simply took the top 3 from each group making 9, and then added the single highest scorer from the rest.  Here are the 8 that didn't make the cut.

E3 (27% ... never placed higher than 4th by any voter)
"More immediate than E2 and more nuance too."
"absurd to recommend this as anything but a curiosity-item, today"
"good, but better has been done."
E3 (was B2) was

...
of course
...

Pablo Casals

Plumb last of the 18 on test, and to be honest he only just squeaked through on a coin-toss from the previous round (at the expense of Zelenka, one of my personal favourites).
This is the Pristine remastering  Pristine  of the ground-breaking recordings made in the late '30s.  It does manage to sound like a bluebottle in a jamjar  .  The performances are well worth hearing on their own merit, so all I can say is - other transfers are available!



D4 (29% ... the only one to be placed last by 2 voters)
"Mildly tubby"
"Mastery of the instrument over insight"
D4 (was A5) was

...

Anner Bylsma (first recording)
[asin]B00000K2V1[/asin]
This is one I hoped might go all the way to the final, but sadly not.  When I first heard it (on the radio, shortly after it was released) it awakened my interest in Bach and HIP-style performance, so I'm very fond of it.
Not to be confused with the more commonly-available 2nd recording (which was quite rightly eliminated in the Prologue) - both are on Sony but this 1st recording may be harder to find, look out for it on the 'Essential Classics' label.



E2 (30% ... one person gave this 1st place, otherwise it came 5th or last)
"Played like a recital, not a dance."
"well done, but colder, like an autumn outing"
E2 (was B10) was

...

Jaap ter Linden (on Brilliant)
[asin]B000JJ5HBY[/asin]
Liked in the Prologue, and liked in the GMG Cello Suites thread, but a faller here, despite being in Group E which I felt was marginally weaker overall than the other two groups.



F1 (33% ... one person gave this 1st place, otherwise it came 5th or last)
"Noblesse moderne."
F1 (was C7) was

...

Ophélie Gaillard (2nd recording)
[asin]B004NWHV6W[/asin]
A firm GMG favourite (though maybe more for her 1st recording?) falls at this hurdle.  Joint last in her group.  And I'm not too keen on the way she's mistreating her cello - she appears to be taking it to bed with her!



F3 (33%)
"Able, very able... but glib."
F3 (was C10) was

...

Truls Mørk
[asin]B0009PEYGM[/asin]
Someone else who ought to be taking better care of his instrument.  Scored a perfect 100% in the Prologue (which surprised me a bit), but the same group of listeners placed him joint last in the group this time.
This is another recording that had a big effect on me - up to this point, I only had two recordings of the Cello Suites - Tortelier and Bylsma. Mørk totally opened the door for me, and I started to listen around to lots of different approaches, enjoying them all.

3 to follow, in my next post ...

[aukhawk]

The other 3 fallers ...

F4 (42% ... including one 1st place.)
"maybe the Cello Suites are not for the viola, after all"
"quite good but because of the higher pitch somewhat straining"
F4 (was C3) was

...

Patricia McCarty
[asin]B00004W4TY[/asin]
CD probably hard to find but this is also available from Amazon as downloads.
A decent showing in this round, but the first of the non-cellos to be kicked out.  There are several other viola sets around - Rysanov for example.  For those who didn't like listening to the Cello suites played at a higher pitch, how about going the other way - there is also at least one complete set available on double bass.  The part-set (suites 2, 1, 5) by Edgar Meyer is, I think, superb.  I offer here a sample, the Courante from Suite 5 played on double bass by Meyer.
Courante (zipped mp3 file) - NB this linked file will be removed after 2 weeks.


D2 (42% ..)
"nimble but choppy, stuttery. dry as a bone. and kind of ugly."
"Senseless race toward proving what exactly?"
D2 (was A1) was

...

Vito Paternoster

(very hard to find as CD, but it is available as a download)
Vito did very well in the preliminary round, 3rd best overall, but his very speedy treatment of the Prelude did not go down at all well here.  I think it's rather thrilling, but I agree perhaps a bit unnecessary.
As well as this version of the Cello Suites, Paternoster is notable for having recorded all the solo Violin Sonatas and Partitas, transcribed for cello.  In his hands these make a great addition to the Bach cello repertoire, and although his technique sounds a bit stressed in places, I think these recordings are very recommendable to anyone who loves the Suites.  Only available (from Amazon) as downloads, I think.
In case you haven't heard this, here's a short and thunderous extract - about 3 minutes - from the great Partita 2 Chaconne.
Chaconne extract (zipped mp3 file) - NB this linked file will be removed after 2 weeks.
Bylsma has also recorded Sonata 2 and Partita 3, along with BVW 1013 which I think was a sonata written for flute.  It's a shame he hasn't tackled the rest.
Paternoster has also recorded BVW 1013, in a mixed recital collection.


D6 (50% ...)
"solid in every way, but not very inspiring"
D6 (was A3) was

...
very unlucky to get knocked out
...

Paolo Beschi
[asin]B00000F1S4[/asin]
The unluckiest of the fallers, after showing strongly in the Prologue this GMG favourite looked like a potential finalist.  However he placed 4th in what turned out to be a strong group, and was squeezed out by another 4th-placer who scored 57% (and who incidentally has not a cat's chance of making the final).  A bad day at the office, Paolo, I'm sorry you had to go.

=========================================

[mszczuj]

I'm waiting impatiently for the second round. But I still want to know who was the C2 and C5 players not qualified for the first round.