Mad Rush

[Sean]

Glass's charming piano work I think was inspired by these words of Gandhi, posted up at his ashram in Maharashtra central India, where he lived simply for a few years in the 30s and 40s; I was there a few weeks ago-



His room looked something like this

[Sean]

Nearby words from one of his colleagues-

[Florestan]

Glass's charming piano work I think was inspired by these words of Gandhi, posted up at his ashram in Maharashtra central India, where he lived simply for a few years in the 30s and 40s; I was there a few weeks ago-

Were you not tempted to follow his example? 

Welcome back and keep them coming. 

[Sean]

Tempted, yes.

Great guy, Gandhi. Except that when people are being unreasonable you need to take the next step and not just appease them.

If either he'd been assassinated much earlier or he'd had the Muslim separatists assassinated then several hundred thousand deaths mightn't have taken place and the country would still be united.

[snyprrr]

gandhi racist??..... noooooooo

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

His room looked something like this

Where's his record player and his collection?

[Sean]

I guess he must have been a listener at times, interesting question...

[ibanezmonster]

Nearby words from one of his colleagues-

"loose it," eh?

Cato?...

[Daverz]

"loose it," eh?

I sometimes loose my temper upon the world, and that's when I loose the hounds.

[mc ukrneal]

Glass's charming piano work I think was inspired by these words of Gandhi, posted up at his ashram in Maharashtra central India, where he lived simply for a few years in the 30s and 40s; I was there a few weeks ago-

If you are not in a mad rush, please stay in the right lane. The left lane is a passing lane.

[Sean]

Thanks Greg, someone's observant here. I keep a little file of bad English abroad but missed that one.

[ibanezmonster]

Thanks Greg, someone's observant here. I keep a little file of bad English abroad but missed that one.

You probably know about this site, then?

http://www.engrish.com/

[Szykneij]

If you are not in a mad rush, please stay in the right lane. The left lane is a passing lane.

http://fox2now.com/2014/05/29/ever-get-stuck-behind-slow-driver-in-left-lane-watch-this-state-trooper-get-em/

[Sean]

Hi Greg, yes the question of why non-Westerners take garbage English to be just fine thanks is an interesting one and has had me philosophizing a bit before now. Basically though, conceited or not, the reason is that the languages and societies they're used to don't have English's syntactical sophistication, and hence just don't expect it to be there and are confused by what seems to be its simple basis. The morons.

[Corey]

Hi Greg, yes the question of why non-Westerners take garbage English to be just fine thanks is an interesting one and has had me philosophizing a bit before now. Basically though, conceited or not, the reason is that the languages and societies they're used to don't have English's syntactical sophistication, and hence just don't expect it to be there and are confused by what seems to be its simple basis. The morons.

I sincerely hope you're in extreme irony mode here.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I sincerely hope you're in extreme irony mode here.

I see you haven't met Sean.

[Corey]

I see you haven't met Sean.

Oh no, I've actually been posting here (on and off) since 2007. I just can't imagine anyone typing out what he did with zero comedic intent.

[Sean]

Hi kitsune, well it was about zero I'm afraid. I wonder if you're non-Western... Have some of my notes on this matter below, ironically not in the most finished English.

They're part of a file with some photos of examples I took in Asia, that should be downloadable here should you be interested enough-
https://app.box.com/s/dgfachbhj0lqlvpo5n3ek0hidhtkrfs2


English errors beyond the West

Many non-Western languages lack the expressive richness and precision of English and learners speaking them then fail to recognize it in English, which also has a deceptively straightforward grammar. While retaining its simple word-order base English becomes highly flexible to deal with highly sophisticated concepts, and different dialectical groups who speak English as a first language have internalized this complexity as second language learners often unwittingly haven't, often mistakenly arguing for their ideas on English being a dialect equivalent to American or Australian English. Articulation and richness is embedded in the nature of the word order syntax with even the most simple sentences having complex implicit structure for being well written or not, yet typically lost on and regarded as superfluous by learners used to simpler languages and from less developed societies.

Western culture prioritizes Apollonian articulated linear thought whereas African and Asian cultures prioritize the more central and important Dionysian interconnected holistic thought. The depth structure of English in respect of this and its sophisticated capacity to distinguish and shape discrete ideas is lost on other cultures, and it's then only learnt up to the level of articulation of the speaker's first language and culture. English's designed purpose of conveying richness of articulated thought, and communicating with people in cultures thinking this way, isn't understood and they don't see that the basic and often ludicrous mistakes they make are indeed mistakes.

The structure of English articulates rational thought whereas Chinese for example has simpler rational meaning and instead a weakly holistic, intuitive context. Hence English used in Chinese linguistic-cultural terms provides a low standard- English's more intellectual nature means that non-specific formations that are fine in Chinese, and in other and perhaps superior holistic languages similarly more involving the intuition, are a mess because of the structural function of English being delineation and logical process. There are two distinct and incommensurate sets of mental functioning being selected for by the languages.

English is a cultural product and provides only a crude intercultural or inter-civilizational lingua franca. If the point of English learning is to communicate with the West then the cultural terms the language encapsulates need to be learnt and international Standard English adhered to: communication across different languages is essentially cultural and lacks common bases for translation.

Most people being without critical distance to see far beyond their initial culture however only receive and use other languages in its terms- they can do little more regardless of how ineffective and corrupted a second language is in other cultural terms. Moreover the increased emphasis on rationality that characteristics of English with its closed sentences connotes goes beyond that in Chinese culture and they neither get it nor want to as for the average person it also undermines their identity.

Learners don't see so much depth structure and consequently tend to think that their various errors aren't errors but instead just issues of local dialect- Chinese English for instance may be thought as good as American English when its differences in fact destroy its meaning. Learners haven't gained sufficient understanding of English because it seems they don't suspect there is further understanding and precision to gain beyond what they have.

Native speakers across different dialects don't make such grammatical mistakes- dialect is secondary to the common understanding of complex grammar that native speakers have. These signs are for international users of English but international Standard English hasn't been used? Standard English with its fixed grammatical base is the only English on this basic level that there is: the same grammatical understanding needs to be there for any meaning to then be expressed- the logic cannot be made relative and idly called a dialect without losing the language.

Native English speakers then find it curious that English written as a second language, particularly in non-Western countries with different overall cultures, is often prepared without being checked, showing crazy and laughable mistakes. Fashionable clothing with English on it is especially illuminating- people walk around with meaningless rubbish on them, just not understanding that there's more to the language than a few superficial words.

The photos below include a sign with poor English fixed hundreds of times inside metro train carriages, prepared by a Chinese speaker without having it checked by a native speaker with strong written skills. A native English speaker who had done basic Chinese language study, and who was asked to prepare a similar sign to communicate to people in Chinese for use on a metro system in a Western country, would almost certainly get it checked by a native Chinese speaker as they'd understand that they may well have made mistakes.

Because the English speaker has an understanding that their own language is richly complex they will infer that the complexity of Chinese may extend beyond what they've studied and internalized so far. But by contrast those learning English with a non-Western first language and culture often don't infer that its complexity extends beyond their studies of it so far, regardless of the preposterous results.

The main reason for the assumption by speakers of most other languages that their poor English isn't poor but instead just fine this is the lower levels of articulation prioritized in their culture and first language, but here's a fuller set of reasons I've theorized-

•   Lower standards of material development from articulation and differentiation in a society parallel lower standards and articulated expectations in English- fewer aspects of both society and language are subject to established structure and the attention to detail involved hasn't been normalized. Hence they don't so often ask questions about things in either of language or society like How does this work? or How do you do this? and instead it's all just personal opinion. Moreover many non-Western societies understand the mind's basis in the intuition rather than intellect and don't take articulated thought as an abstraction so seriously.

•   Other languages and their writing systems are simpler than English. Chinese characters for instance having only indications of meaning usable by several different languages provide for the assumption that no further care needs to be taken in any writing system. Characters are only syllabic, lacking the more detailed thought of phonetic construction.

•   Learners can reach a simple conversational standard with a limited amount of study, whereas some other languages have more complexity built in to begin with, and learners then assume they've mastered English. The lack of developed rules however then allows English to become hugely sophisticated, involving careful word-order providing finely articulated conceptual thought and judgement.

•   People may not bother to get spelling right if they have a good phonetic alternative- non-Western societies value practicality over conceptualization and again the idea there should be attention to such intellectual constructions doesn't arise.

•   Translations tend to be made with the local language word or character direct for an English word, which can make more sense for local speakers to understand but then they can speak their local language to each other and don't need the English lingua franca: instead the signs aren't for speakers of the same language of the person who wrote the signs and translators are just being wrong-footed by their own presupposed linguistic terms.

•   English in non-English speaking countries is used as a common language only to communicate basic ideas and low standards will suffice- English is treated like a pidgin, a simplified language created from others.

•   More longwinded English can perhaps communicate better to basic level speakers when they wouldn't know the more developed vocabulary, for instance Pedestrian Across the Street Channel as in the example below may work for more people than Underpass or Subway.

•   People don't see that words may have meanings for more specific contexts, translation dictionaries not explaining this well- English vocabulary is enormous with endless colouration for different usage.

•   There is pride or some status-related cultural issue preventing them asking for help, seemingly existing in place of the richer articulation of thought English issues, even when students trying to learn are treated very badly in being given low quality and senseless material as a result.

•   People just don't have any native speakers with good written skills around to check their English for them.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Oh no, I've actually been posting here (on and off) since 2007. I just can't imagine anyone typing out what he did with zero comedic intent.

Ah. I see, and was misled because you have a grand total of 30 posts to your current name. But I can't say I've ever known our old friend Sean to have much of a sense of humor.

[Sean]

Hey I have some friends...