helping others understand "classical"

[gutstrings]

So, lets say a friend only listens to country music. He asks what I listen to, and I respond "classical". He responds "oh-- elevator music..."     Hmmm, this is where it gets interesting. How can I condense 500 years of western hemisphere music in all its forms and styles into a brief sentence or 2, in a non-confrontational manner?

My response lately has been "classical music is tremendously varied, everything from solo instrument to voice, to large orchestra and chorus, and everything in between, from plainsong chant to modern avant-garde-- there are too many styles to name, and only bad music, or music played poorly might be considered fit for the elevator"

I usually lose them a second or two after the word "classical".  I've also tried pointing out that "country" is merely one style, originating from one region of the globe,  and most songs written over the last 50 years or so. I don't intend to diss the genre, as there are many recognized styles from a wide range of cultures. "Folk music" may infer Irish, Scottish, Klezmer, Hungarian, Russian, Greek, or American styles.

Any suggestions? Maybe "Country, the gateway to classical...", or  "Country??? You mean like Sibelius?", (I'm not picking on country, really!!! Rap, hip-hop, blues, etc-- all individual styles... just trying to convey the grandeur, variety, intimacy and complexity of the oft misunderstood word "classical".

[71 dB]

Any suggestions?

Find yourself intelligent friends who are not complete ignoramuses.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

So, lets say a friend only listens to country music. He asks what I listen to, and I respond "classical". He responds "oh-- elevator music..."     

Try: "no, movie music."

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Nice try, but hardly representative. Not an accurate portrayal at all.

Yes, but it's a start - and more accurate and attractive than "elevator music."

[San Antone]

So, lets say a friend only listens to country music. He asks what I listen to, and I respond "classical". How can I condense 500 years of western hemisphere music in all its forms and styles into a brief sentence or 2, in a non-confrontational manner?

I don't know if you can, but it is possible for a person who enjoys Country music to also enjoy Classical music.  That's me.  I'd suggest that you make a "mixtape" of a variety of your favorite Classical works, single movements, no more than four minutes each and hand it off.  If he asks to hear more, continue the discussion; if not - forget about it.

[Ken B]

Track 8
[asin]B000008NFY[/asin]

[Mirror Image]

If they're such a fan of country music, tell them to listen to Copland's Rodeo or Billy the Kid. Problem solved. All jokes aside, if a person is receptive to the music, then that's great, but if they're not, then there's really no amount of convincing that can be done. A person has to make up their own mind about the music and decide for themselves whether it's for them or not.

[mc ukrneal]

I don't really like some of the advice you've been given so far. I won't tell you how to say it, but I think the gist of what you need to get across is the following:
1. Classical music is not elevator music
2. Calling classical music as elevator music sounds like he wants to elevate his own tastes by trashing other music (this may be too confrontational for you).
3. Make a bridge between classical and country if this is what he understands. For example, Stephen Foster wrote some songs that are well known, and his music is sort of a mix of country, classical, and folk, including the song they sing before the Kentucky Derby. Well, Ives used melodies/bits from Foster in his music. Perhaps there are better examples (and perhaps non-country examples will be of interest to him), and more recent, but I don't know country well enough to connect them. But the idea is there. Maybe a link like this will help:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Melodia/List_of_popular_songs_based_on_classical_music

I'm not sure why others feel it's a waste of time, since you don't seem to think so. We know far too little to make that assessment. But others are correct in saying that you can lead the horse to water, but cannot make him drink.....

[San Antone]

A mixed tape? Everything is consumed digital these days .. but I've tried this rather "campaigning" / "free sample" hand-out method back in the day myself  .. numerous times, requires more work .. time, putting it all together .. and ultimately it didn't really do anything. Sometimes, I would even just buy records and give them away as gifts. But .. you just can't expect someone to flip and fall madly in love with the stuff YOU LIKE by using this method.

I basically agree, but thought I make the suggestion anyway. 

[Florestan]

How can I condense 500 years of western hemisphere music in all its forms and styles into a brief sentence or 2, in a non-confrontational manner?

Short answer: you can´t. Long answer: you can´t.

You have to remember that the vast majority of folks out there have been raised on commercial pop entertainment so making the leap to Art music is quite the adjustment and will take time for them to absorb and understand. And the majority aren't up to that task, or even care at all. The ones who do, will eventually find it. Of course, you can mention it to folks, and advocate it .. but don't expect much to happen on their end in most cases.

This.

[Jo498]

I agree that there is no simple strategy and, somewhat sadly, it is often not worth complicated strategies.
But one can show (don't tell) with examples the huge spectrum of music from the 11th to the 21 century (or even within the more or less mainstream repertoire between about 1600 and 1930) to dispel the ridiculous idea that one could even begin to compare centuries of "classical" with the "genres" like Rock, Country, Rap etc. that usually cover a few decades of commercialized western entertainment music. And the "elevator" or "movie" music is way off.
If the other one is sufficiently open-minded this may start something. Or it may not. So it goes.

[EigenUser]

So, lets say a friend only listens to country music. He asks what I listen to, and I respond "classical". He responds "oh-- elevator music..."     Hmmm, this is where it gets interesting. How can I condense 500 years of western hemisphere music in all its forms and styles into a brief sentence or 2, in a non-confrontational manner?

My response lately has been "classical music is tremendously varied, everything from solo instrument to voice, to large orchestra and chorus, and everything in between, from plainsong chant to modern avant-garde-- there are too many styles to name, and only bad music, or music played poorly might be considered fit for the elevator"

I usually lose them a second or two after the word "classical".  I've also tried pointing out that "country" is merely one style, originating from one region of the globe,  and most songs written over the last 50 years or so. I don't intend to diss the genre, as there are many recognized styles from a wide range of cultures. "Folk music" may infer Irish, Scottish, Klezmer, Hungarian, Russian, Greek, or American styles.

Any suggestions? Maybe "Country, the gateway to classical...", or  "Country??? You mean like Sibelius?", (I'm not picking on country, really!!! Rap, hip-hop, blues, etc-- all individual styles... just trying to convey the grandeur, variety, intimacy and complexity of the oft misunderstood word "classical".

Funny that you post this. This has been on my mind recently a lot.

I was at a coffee shop a few days ago explaining the concert I am going to on Sunday. I was trying to explain Ligeti's Atmospheres as "blobs of sound", but I thought that sounded too nebulous. So do you know what I did? I pulled out my computer, opened iTunes, and played 30 seconds from my favorite section from the piece! I figured that the music could speak for itself.

[San Antone]

I was at a coffee shop a few days ago explaining the concert I am going to on Sunday. I was trying to explain Ligeti's Atmospheres ... I pulled out my computer, opened iTunes, and played 30 seconds from my favorite section from the piece! I figured that the music could speak for itself.

This is much better.

[Florestan]

I was at a coffee shop a few days ago explaining the concert I am going to on Sunday. I was trying to explain Ligeti's Atmospheres as "blobs of sound", but I thought that sounded too nebulous. So do you know what I did? I pulled out my computer, opened iTunes, and played 30 seconds from my favorite section from the piece! I figured that the music could speak for itself.

And what was the audience's reaction?

[Ken B]

Funny that you post this. This has been on my mind recently a lot.

I was at a coffee shop a few days ago explaining the concert I am going to on Sunday. I was trying to explain Ligeti's Atmospheres as "blobs of sound", but I thought that sounded too nebulous. So do you know what I did? I pulled out my computer, opened iTunes, and played 30 seconds from my favorite section from the piece! I figured that the music could speak for itself.

Best strategu.
Except for Ligeti.

[jochanaan]

I have found myself, lately, answering something like this: "Well, I listen to a little of everything [which is true], but my first love is the music of the great classic composers."  Such a response does two things: It establishes me as a person of broad tastes, and it suggests that there is much more to all music than the pigeonholes created by record companies' marketing departments.  And just perhaps, it might short-circuit the "elevator music" stereotypical response...

[Corey]

Why would you want to inculcate someone into the realms of classical music? If their taste is so terrible to begin with what makes you think they won't apply the same shitty set of judgments to your beloved classical pieces?

I think in a way it's a mistake to attempt to make art music "accessible". Part of the appeal for me (initially) was that this music was, in a way, "forbidden" -- no one in my peer group at the time liked it, none of my family members knew anything about it, and we weren't taught about it in school. It is considered by (arguably) most to be a bizarre and unusual pursuit, so of course it appealed to my contrarian tendencies. I saw the obstacles (length, need for concentration, historical obscurity, understanding the "language" of a piece) as challenges to broaden the mind.

Nowadays I don't have such a didactic approach towards music and generally don't take it as seriously as I did when I was first getting into classical music, where it was a matter of education and not so much enjoyment per se, but the former mindset of extreme concentration helped me to my current state where i tend to just listen attentively and appreciate elements of the music without much exertion of energy.

Honestly most people do not want to be challenged by art. That is fine. Let them be. For others, we can be content to delve into our odd interests and hopefully find a few other kind souls who share that interest. No need to proselytize or convert the unbelievers. Embrace the niche!

[San Antone]

Why would you want to inculcate someone into the realms of classical music? If their taste is so terrible to begin with what makes you think they won't apply the same shitty set of judgments to your beloved classical pieces?

Just because someone likes "Country music" does not mean they have "shitty taste".  I enjoy plenty of it; although as evident when sampling any music there are better or worse examples of the genre. 

If I were to amend my response I made earlier it would be for the original poster to exhibit some interest as well in his friend's music as opposed to making it a one way street.

[jochanaan]

Why would you want to inculcate someone into the realms of classical music? If their taste is so terrible to begin with what makes you think they won't apply the same shitty set of judgments to your beloved classical pieces? ...

"Hope springs eternal..." And they do ask.

[Corey]

Just because someone likes "Country music" does not mean they have "shitty taste".  I enjoy plenty of it; although as evident when sampling any music there are better or worse examples of the genre. 

If I were to amend my response I made earlier it would be for the original poster to exhibit some interest as well in his friend's music as opposed to making it a one way street.

With respect to the OP, it seemed to me that this "country music" lovin' fool was merely a stand-in for "someone with bad taste" and a strawman created for the purpose of wondering how to go about educating someone to the glories of classical music. I could be wrong.

As for me, I can take or leave country -- usually the latter. There's some goodies to be dug up for sure but at this point in my life it feels a bit like getting blood from a stone. I'm still allowing for a possible country phase to happen, maybe in my 60s.