New to Wagner - Just purchased this big box set.

[Karl Henning]

Between YouTube and Spotify, you don't have to spend even one penny. 

Apart, that is, from any subscription one pays Spotify. Which does not materially alter your point.

[Florestan]

Apart, that is, from any subscription one pays Spotify. Which does not materially alter your point.

I pay no subscription at all. The offset is that commercials pop up every three or four tracks but given how rarely I use it, I'm not bothered at all.

[Papy Oli]

Jurowski's ring, £7 Flac on supraphonline:

https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/293263-wagner-der-ring-des-nibelungen

[Karl Henning]

I pay no subscription at all. The offset is that commercials pop up every three or four tracks but given how rarely I use it, I'm not bothered at all.

Nice. I haven't yet dipped my musical toe into the Spotify pool.

[(poco) Sforzando]

What I mean is that complete operas aren't sold act by act.

C'est la vie. I can now find the complete Boulez-Chereau Ring cycle on BluRay on Amazon for $50 USD, and the Levine-Met Ring on DVD for $40. No further comment.

[Karl Henning]

I can now find the complete Boulez-Chereau Ring cycle on BluRay on Amazon for $50 USD

Than which what could be sweeter?

[hopefullytrusting]

Holy snikes!

I just looked up the price for the Karajan Wagner set - which The Pink Harp gifted me years and years ago, which is why it is my favorite - I had no idea, geez.

I didn't appreciate him enough.

[Spotted Horses]

C'est la vie. I can now find the complete Boulez-Chereau Ring cycle on BluRay on Amazon for $50 USD, and the Levine-Met Ring on DVD for $40. No further comment.

A blue ray edition were be great news were it captured on film. Alas, it was recorded in ~1980 on analog video tape, so the intrinsic resolution of the video is not high definition. I notice reviewers on amazon generally report subtle improvement of the video over the DVD edition, probably because the video compression used on DVDs in the old days was poor.  A more noticeable improvement of the audio is generally reported.

I have the DVD edition, it don't think I will poney up for the BR edition.

[Karl Henning]

A blue ray edition were be great news were it captured on film. Alas, it was recorded in ~1980 on analog video tape, so the intrinsic resolution of the video is not high definition. I notice reviewers on amazon generally report subtle improvement of the video over the DVD edition, and more noticeable improvement of the audio.

I have the DVD edition, it don't think I will poney up for the BR edition.

I too have some DVDs which I shan't trouble to upgrade. 

[Karl Henning]

Holy snikes!

I just looked up the price for the Karajan Wagner set - which The Pink Harp gifted me years and years ago, which is why it is my favorite - I had no idea, geez.

I didn't appreciate him enough.

I'm glad someone has reason to appreciate him.

[Spotted Horses]

Holy snikes!

I just looked up the price for the Karajan Wagner set - which The Pink Harp gifted me years and years ago, which is why it is my favorite - I had no idea, geez.

I didn't appreciate him enough.

The price you are seeing is due to the fact that it is out of print. I got it for about $100 back in the day.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Jurowski's ring, £7 Flac on supraphonline:

https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/293263-wagner-der-ring-des-nibelungen

I believe that's the Marek Janowski. It's a pretty good version with one major drawback being the Brunnhilde of Jeannine Altmeyer, whose voice is just too light for the role. Vladimir Jurowski (different dude) has recorded a very good Tristan on CD from Glyndebourne, and on BluRay has does a Meistersinger also from Glyndebourne in a very good production.

[Papy Oli]

I believe that's the Marek Janowski. It's a pretty good version with one major drawback being the Brunnhilde of Jeannine Altmeyer, whose voice is just too light for the role. Vladimir Jurowski (different dude) has recorded a very good Tristan on CD from Glyndebourne, and on BluRay has does a Meistersinger also from Glyndebourne in a very good production.

Oops, got my "Ski"'s mixed up, Apologies.

Well, a cheap option all the same 

[Madiel]

Getting properly into Wagner has always been difficult for me. I just don't know how to do it.

It's not compulsory. Frankly, my advice is: don't. As of a couple of weeks ago I've come to the conclusion that getting "properly" into Wagner is not worth it.

Sure, the orchestral scoring is great. But the opera stories are sub-par, largely due to Wagner's recurring decision to write them himself. He just wasn't that good at it in my opinion, as well as being a person who had some really objectionable ideas.

I'd felt that way to some extent after watching the Ring cycle quite some years ago. But what solidified the decision was watching The Flying Dutchman on OperaVision recently. And I've been watching a lot of operas on OperaVision recently... and this was easily the most gaping, ENORMOUS plot hole I've encountered. Which is really saying something. One doesn't necessarily go to operas for really compelling detailed storytelling, but I don't think anything has frustrated me as much as the basic inconsistency in Dutchman as to whether or not Senta has no idea who The Dutchman is or knows exactly who he is.

Every single Act of the Ring cycle started off with me going "wow, what fantastic music" for the first few minutes, and then getting more and more frustrated as plot elements took 2-3 times as long as they needed to. I get that grand opera is, well... grand, but I now know that Wagner makes other composers look quite concise in comparison.

I am still not really an opera aficionado, but my view now is that there are plenty of other big names and famous operas that are far more rewarding than Herr Wagner. There's no requirement to persist with him if it's not working for you. Don't engage with the sunk cost fallacy.

[ritter]

Perhaps the problem is with myths in general, not with Wagner's (absolutely masterful) treateent of them. Just saying...

[71 dB]

It's not compulsory. Frankly, my advice is: don't. As of a couple of weeks ago I've come to the conclusion that getting "properly" into Wagner is not worth it.

Sure, the orchestral scoring is great. But the opera stories are sub-par, largely due to Wagner's recurring decision to write them himself. He just wasn't that good at it in my opinion, as well as being a person who had some really objectionable ideas.

I'd felt that way to some extent after watching the Ring cycle quite some years ago. But what solidified the decision was watching The Flying Dutchman on OperaVision recently. And I've been watching a lot of operas on OperaVision recently... and this was easily the most gaping, ENORMOUS plot hole I've encountered. Which is really saying something. One doesn't necessarily go to operas for really compelling detailed storytelling, but I don't think anything has frustrated me as much as the basic inconsistency in Dutchman as to whether or not Senta has no idea who The Dutchman is or knows exactly who he is.

Every single Act of the Ring cycle started off with me going "wow, what fantastic music" for the first few minutes, and then getting more and more frustrated as plot elements took 2-3 times as long as they needed to. I get that grand opera is, well... grand, but I now know that Wagner makes other composers look quite concise in comparison.

I am still not really an opera aficionado, but my view now is that there are plenty of other big names and famous operas that are far more rewarding than Herr Wagner. There's no requirement to persist with him if it's not working for you. Don't engage with the sunk cost fallacy.

Interesting. Not getting into Wagner is an option of course.

[Elgarian Redux]

FWIW,  Parsifal is the Wagner opera which was my entrée, notwithstanding the fact that I had known Ring excerpts forever. Anyway, just a suggestion, if you find you need more Wagner in your musical life.

At various times we've tried Dutchman, Lohengrin, Parsifal, and Mastersingers, but found them quite tough going. Tristan came closer to what we wanted - we do have the Bohm 1966 recording of Tristan. But again and again it was the Ring we longed to be listening to, and we settled on acquiring other recordings of it, rather than recordings of the others. 'Tis just the way we are, I guess.

[Madiel]

Perhaps the problem is with myths in general, not with Wagner's (absolutely masterful) treateent of them. Just saying...

Rusalka is mythical and I'm fine with it. Just saying. And I grew up reading myths. And I've mentioned here how Hadestown is something I adore, and the song cycle Penelope by Sarah Kirkland Snider. I am fine with myths in general, and indeed with musical treatments of them.

And I'm sorry, but there is nothing "masterful" about the plot of Dutchman where the same legend gets sung by two different characters in quick succession. You get told the legend in Act One, only to have Senta sing the whole thing over again at the start of Act Two, basically because she needs something to sing about and her own life is apparently insufficient to provide material. And then despite having declared that her whole mission in life is to marry The Dutchman, she spends the next part of the opera acting as if she hasn't the slightest clue about his identity or how the curse works. It is bad plotting. The music might be masterful, but the libretto decidedly is not.

PS One of my favourite book series is actually based on the Ring cycle.

[Karl Henning]

At various times we've tried Dutchman, Lohengrin, Parsifal, and Mastersingers, but found them quite tough going. Tristan came closer to what we wanted - we do have the Bohm 1966 recording of Tristan. But again and again it was the Ring we longed to be listening to, and we settled on acquiring other recordings of it, rather than recordings of the others. 'Tis just the way we are, I guess.

Most interesting. I suppose it is in part this fell faculty of the Ring which has made it a particular item of Unfinished Business for the Henning ears

And although weeks will yet pass before the Levine/Met set arrives, it looks like Boulez will land today ....

[Florestan]

And I'm sorry, but there is nothing "masterful" about the plot of Dutchman where the same legend gets sung by two different characters in quick succession. You get told the legend in Act One, only to have Senta sing the whole thing over again at the start of Act Two, basically because she needs something to sing about and her own life is apparently insufficient to provide material. And then despite having declared that her whole mission in life is to marry The Dutchman, she spends the next part of the opera acting as if she hasn't the slightest clue about his identity or how the curse works. It is bad plotting. The music might be masterful, but the libretto decidedly is not.

The irony being, of course, that nobody expected much coherence and plausibility from the libretti of Italian or French (grand) opera and they didn't pay them more attention than necessary, if at all; whereas Wagner insisted that his libretti be taken seriously and paid undivided attention, only to come up with contrivances and conceits that rival and even surpass the Italian/French ones.