Countdown to Extinction: The 2016 Presidential Election

[(poco) Sforzando]

He's been knpwn to post occasionally fine and rational posts on some composer threads.

That's good to know. Truly.

[Madiel]

He's also been known to post great big rambling posts about how this or that recording doesn't live up to his exacting requirements, with all the random shifts of punctuation, capitalisation and font in evidence here.

[(poco) Sforzando]

He's also been known to post great big rambling posts about how this or that recording doesn't live up to his exacting requirements, with all the random shifts of punctuation, capitalisation and font in evidence here.

How have I managed to miss all this.

[Spineur]

So the NYT claims that Trump hasnt paid any federal taxes for the past 18 years.   Completely consistent with him boasting "Tax evasion makes me smarter".

My belief is that he is done.  Time to move to other GMG threads.

[Herman]

So the NYT claims that Trump hasnt paid any federal taxes for the past 18 years.   Completely consistent with him boasting "Tax evasion makes me smarter".

My belief is that he is done.  Time to move to other GMG threads.

The tax evasion story doesn't help, it'll put a dent in his poll numbers. But it's not over yet.

Remember that a large number of Trump followers firmly believe that taxation is theft, and they'll dream of a Trump Prez turning the US into a tax free zone.

[Que]

So the NYT claims that Trump hasnt paid any federal taxes for the past 18 years.   Completely consistent with him boasting "Tax evasion makes me smarter".

My belief is that he is done.  Time to move to other GMG threads.

I'm not surprised that he didn't pay any taxes, why would he? 

Taxex are paid by the middle class in any modern society anyway. The poor obviously don't have the means, the rich have ample possibilities to avoid paying taxes at all.
If the rich would pay taxes (in some countries they actually do) their numbers and by consequence the revenues are relatively small, so it's more a matter of principle...
Large companies is another matter of course: their contribution would be significant. But generally they hardly pay any taxes. As a matter of fact, the US recently rebuked the European Commission for clamping down on "special tax deals" (no or hardly any tax) between companies like Apple and EU-member states.

Yes, why would we pay taxes? You would be an idiot if you can avoid it... It's stealing from hard working people (and handing it out to the poor).

That's exactly what many conservative middle clas voters are going think when they will vote for Trump.
They want what he has, and they think are going to get it by voting for for him. They have no faith in government anyway, so why pay for it? 

I compared Trump to Silvio Berlusconi before and this is exactly what happened with Berlusconi: people saw him as a successful businessman that would run the Italian government as successful as his own business and make them rich. Instead he used his political powers to serve his own vanity and personal financial interests.

L'histoire se répète....

Q

[knight66]

I agree Que, I read right through the original article. For me the only damage it does is to his reputation as a successful businessman. If he paid no Federal Taxes, it is probably due to enormous business losses which he can legitimately set against both past and subsequent tax liabilities. We already knew how he basically gambled with other people's money and enriched himself. So, I see nothing here that is going to get people excited.

The scandal is the way in which corporate debt can be escaped and the controlling individuals are rarely held accountable. But that is how the powerful have arranged affairs in most of the West.

More interesting woud be the net worth and charity giving, pages that have not been divulged. Also nice to know the leak seems to have come via Trump Tower.

Mike

[zamyrabyrd]

I compared Trump to Silvio Berlusconi before and this is exactly what happened with Berlusconi: people saw him as a successful businessman that would run the Italian government as successful as his own business and make them rich. Instead he used his political powers to serve his own vanity and personal financial interests.

Berlusconi, hmm, interesting, you may have a point.
As for Hillary, she is not poor either but tries to use the gap between her wealth and DT's as her being the underdog. This was her repeating theme in the debate like a leitmotiv.

from Policy.mic:
The most recent estimates of Clinton's net worth put her wealth between $30 and $50 million. Her disclosure to the Federal Election Commission indicates she is worth $31 million. Forbes estimates the combined worth of Hillary and former president Bill Clinton at $45 million.

The Clintons were "dead broke" when they left the White House, according to Hillary. But since 2001, they have earned more than $230 million, according to Forbes. Many of those millions came from highly-compensated speeches given all over the world, some of them delivered to Wall Street banks.

According to former aides and Secret Service members, the old girl has quite a temper and even potty mouth. So, really she should not be pointing a finger at others when three are pointing back at her.

[Turner]

The tax evasion story doesn't help, it'll put a dent in his poll numbers. But it's not over yet.

Remember that a large number of Trump followers firmly believe that taxation is theft, and they'll dream of a Trump Prez turning the US into a tax free zone.

I agree with this. And that is probably even secondary to his primary populist role, as a releaser of aggression.

[Herman]

Yes, why would we pay taxes? You would be an idiot if you can avoid it... It's stealing from hard working people (and handing it out to the poor).

That's exactly what many conservative middle clas voters are going think when they will vote for Trump.
They want what he has, and they think are going to get it by voting for for him. They have no faith in government anyway, so why pay for it? 

I compared Trump to Silvio Berlusconi before and this is exactly what happened with Berlusconi: people saw him as a successful businessman that would run the Italian government as successful as his own business and make them rich. Instead he used his political powers to serve his own vanity and personal financial interests.

Q

Well, what may happen is that the Trump campaign will die by a thousand cuts, and this is a major cut all the same. At best this was going to be a very close race, and if a sufficient nr of subgroups are alienated he'll lose.

If only people who think roads and hospitals and the army will pay for themselves are going to turn out for Trump, or people who think they'll get as crassly ostentatiously Eighties rich as Trump just by pulling the lever for him, then Trump and the GOP won't win.

This is why Trump's defense is now slagging off Hillary, floating weirdo notions about the Clintons' marital life (look who's talking!) in hopes of reducing the D turnout.

[Karl Henning]

The tax evasion story doesn't help, it'll put a dent in his poll numbers. But it's not over yet.

Remember that a large number of Trump followers firmly believe that taxation is theft, and they'll dream of a Trump Prez turning the US into a tax free zone.

There is a core of his support who will vote for anything that can stand on two feet who is not Hillary Clinton.  The GOP could have nominated Gaddafi, and they would vote for him, and you if you asked them how they could, their response will be their objections to Clinton.

[Spineur]

LOL !!

[Turner]

And just now:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/782541307168391168

"I know our complex tax laws better than anyone who has ever run for president and am the only one who can fix them. #failing@nytimes"

Reading the comments to his non-denial tweet however, is quite illuminating.
So far a clear majority of negative ones.

[(poco) Sforzando]

LOL !!

This was of course Mittens Romney's favorite meme too. But the 47% who "don't pay federal taxes" are largely low-income workers who fall into a low tax bracket to start with, and then can use benefits like the earned income credit (Reagan's proudest piece of legislation). Forbes Magazine put it this way:

The vast majority of non-income taxpayers fall into three categories:
•17 percent includes students, people with disabilities or illnesses, the long-term unemployed, and other people with very low taxable incomes. Also included would be people like our soldiers in foreign wars who are exempted from paying income taxes while they are on active duty in a war zone.
•22 percent of people who did not pay federal income taxes in 2009 are people aged 65 or older who have modest incomes (and do not have earnings).
•61 percent are working people who pay payroll taxes but are not paying income taxes.

Trump, however, is taking advantage of arcane tax benefits available only to the very wealthy. Provisions like net operating losses, like-kind exchanges, at-risk rules, capital loss carryovers and the like were written into the tax code by the rich and for the rich to ensure they can get away with freeloading far more than any of the supposedly non-taxing paying 47% that 1 percenters like Romney so freely criticize.

[Turner]

Trump´s Pennsylvania rally yesterday evening must however cost him some votes:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/02/as-news-of-trumps-taxes-broke-he-goes-off-script-at-a-rally-in-pennsylvania/

[André]

So Trump managed to lose more money than any one else in history running for President, and it takes him 18 years to wipe the losses off the balance sheet. Quite an achievement, I say. And he can be counted on to manage the people's tax money ?  What a stupid Joe !

[San Antone]

Re: abortion

Although I am not for abortion, I am pro-choice.  I would like to see fewer abortions, but I think this decision resides entirely with the individual.  For me it is an issue of personal liberty.  The worst thing the Republican party ever did, imo, was align itself with the evangelical movement.  I think that the true conservative position is to oppose government encroachments on personal liberty.

Re: taxes

I do not trust the reportage of the NYT, however, if Trump paid zero taxes, good for him.  I wish every citizen of the US used every legal means to pay as little in federal income taxes as possible.  The less money the federal government has the less harm it can do.  Most of the pragmatic work of government occurs at the local level which is funded by property, sales, and other taxes.  The federal government has entered into areas it does not belong, e.g. education.  Government works best the closer it is to the people, the more remote are the levers of power, the less accountable government is to the people.

[André]

Trump´s Pennsylvania rally yesterday evening must however cost him some votes:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/02/as-news-of-trumps-taxes-broke-he-goes-off-script-at-a-rally-in-pennsylvania/

I read the whole thing. Unbelievable.  A terminal case of logorrhea. He cannot focus his attention on anything. No coherence, no logic, no argumentation. I don't know if he was high on something other than himself, but this is really alarming.

[Herman]

Trump´s Pennsylvania rally yesterday evening must however cost him some votes:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/02/as-news-of-trumps-taxes-broke-he-goes-off-script-at-a-rally-in-pennsylvania/

Amazing report about an incoherent Trump speech. Particularly the part at the end, about "maybe you want to go to a movie afterwards, but you're still excited about me, and besides, they don't make movies like they used to do anymore. so you go home" is bizarre and I'd almost say Snyprrrish.

In the comments section there is an astute reply to the obvious question why Hillary ain't twenty points ahead by now:

"because she's a woman. (I'm a woman too, just telling like it is. Any man going against trump would be 30 points ahead). As much as I like Hillary, and I do like her, the reality is I don't think many people are ready to see a woman as president."

[Xerxes]

Taxex are paid by the middle class in any modern society anyway.