Countdown to Extinction: The 2016 Presidential Election

[Ken B]

This raises a few questions.
1. Is there a scientific consensus on sociobiology, and if so, what is it?
2. Is there a national or regional debate on how to teach sociobiology at any level?
3. Which liberal politicians advocate teaching an overtly anti-scientific alternative to sociobiology in public schools?

Nice! When I say vaxxers are mostly left I get links about *members of the public*. When I say a resistance to sociobiology is mostly left I get demands about *professsional politicians*.
And, as the rhetorical cherry on top, suddenly this has to be about what's taught in *public school*.

[Karl Henning]

But I can see confusion creeping into this thread ...

I can see a church by daylight. 

[Karl Henning]

As I have said on several previous occasions ... dig up Barry Goldwater and run him. 

So you're "Zombie" Goldwater's press agent!

[Karl Henning]

Oh, it was major and important, no doubt. We needed it then, but it's aftermath haunts us today. I think the Columbia River is major and important too, and that's without even being a tree-hugger!  Hell, if you can contribute anything of value to stopping that ongoing nightmare, I hope you can climb aboard too. All I have in good supply is sarcasm, and apparently they have plenty of that for now...

You've never hugged a tree? 

[Karl Henning]

Fartists should be isolated.

There!  I said it!

[Karl Henning]

"If I'm a candidate, there's no fifth-place, you know, kind of mentality in my mind."

[Ken B]

"If I'm a candidate, there's no fifth-place, you know, kind of mentality in my mind."

I'm skeptical of any piece from a partisan paper that assumes a candidate is "off course.' But I don't think Jeb can get the nomination -- because he's a Bush. I don't think this unfair because he's only prominent in the first place because he's a Bush.

[Karl Henning]

I'm skeptical of any piece from a partisan paper that assumes a candidate is "off course.' But I don't think Jeb can get the nomination -- because he's a Bush. I don't think this unfair because he's only prominent in the first place because he's a Bush.

All your points, well taken.  Well, most of them.  Reasonably well taken. 

[Ken B]

Look. I'm a hardline free trader. So probably I would support Obamatrade. But we can't have congress passing secret laws. WTF. The gop bitched about the dems passing Obamacare without reading it. Obama and the gop deserve to lose this until they make the bill public. How pathetic are you when Harry Reid sounds like the guardian of open government and candor in comparison??

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/secrecy-eroding-support-for-trade-pact-critics-say-117581.html

[Pat B]

Nice! When I say vaxxers are mostly left I get links about *members of the public*. When I say a resistance to sociobiology is mostly left I get demands about *professsional politicians*.
And, as the rhetorical cherry on top, suddenly this has to be about what's taught in *public school*.

Sorry for the slow response -- I was mostly offline for the past few days.

1. No, see Reply #510.

2. You have been asserting that the Ds are just as "anti-science" as the Rs, in different fields. Since some Rs are openly pushing to teach anti-science in public schools, then your alleged equivalence would require that at least some Ds are doing the same, in different fields.

[Karl Henning]

Must say, this was rather well played:

"And, gotta say, Hilary [sic] logo looks like parking lot directions for a French hospital"

(I mean, apart from the cheap use of French as a punchline.)

RTWT here (actually, about Jeb's exclamation point, &c.)

[Todd]

I think logos are very important.  Jeb and team have obviously put a lot of thought into his.  In the event he does not take the White House, it might be possible to recycle it as a logo for a new dollar store chain in the south.  Remove the 2016 bit, and voilà, you got some great branding.

[Ken B]

Sorry for the slow response -- I was mostly offline for the past few days.

2. You have been asserting that the Ds are just as "anti-science" as the Rs, in different fields. Since some Rs are openly pushing to teach anti-science in public schools, then your alleged equivalence would require that at least some Ds are doing the same, in different fields.

Now you are arguing that unless they are both anti-science in the same buildings -- public schools -- they cannot be compared. You are simply trying to cherry-pick.

So let's talk "alternative medicine" as an example. This comes in several varieties. The faith healing kind skews right. The "natural" "non-western" type skews left, like homeopathy or aromatherapy.

And in some places this nonsense DOES get taught in schools, just at higher levels.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9041291/Stop-teaching-nonsense-alternative-medicine-courses-Australian-doctors-say.html

[mc ukrneal]

Now you are arguing that unless they are both anti-science in the same buildings -- public schools -- they cannot be compared. You are simply trying to cherry-pick.

So let's talk "alternative medicine" as an example. This comes in several varieties. The faith healing kind skews right. The "natural" "non-western" type skews left, like homeopathy or aromatherapy.

And in some places this nonsense DOES get taught in schools, just at higher levels.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9041291/Stop-teaching-nonsense-alternative-medicine-courses-Australian-doctors-say.html

I am reminded of PT Barnum...

[Todd]

Ladies and gentlemen: The next President of the United States of America!

[Ken B]

I am reminded of PT Barnum...

You know, that explains several of the present campaigns.

[Karl Henning]

Ladies and gentlemen: The next President of the United States of America!

I thank God he has joined the circus fray!

[Rinaldo]

I thank God he has joined the circus fray!

And you're not alone.

https://www.youtube.com/v/BOp0zmNWzSg

[Karl Henning]

I am alone.  I am glad, not "orgasmic," thank you very much 

[Pat B]

Now you are arguing that unless they are both anti-science in the same buildings -- public schools -- they cannot be compared. You are simply trying to cherry-pick.

So let's talk "alternative medicine" as an example. This comes in several varieties. The faith healing kind skews right. The "natural" "non-western" type skews left, like homeopathy or aromatherapy.

And in some places this nonsense DOES get taught in schools, just at higher levels.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9041291/Stop-teaching-nonsense-alternative-medicine-courses-Australian-doctors-say.html

Fair enough regarding venue, but I was trying (clumsily) to make the distinction between unscientific and anti-scientific (and education is an important and touchy subject with me these days). I will agree that both parties sometimes make arguments that aren't supported by science (not necessarily equally but I'm not arguing that point), but I never hear Ds overtly attacking science the way some Rs do regarding evolution or climate change.

So far you have named:

1. Anti-vax. A fringe issue with negligible support among elected officials from either party. If you extend this to vaccine mandates, it becomes a significant issue, but then it's mostly Rs that align with the anti-vaxxers.
2. Sociobiology. Seems like more of an academic issue than a political one, and I haven't found any reason to think that there is a scientific consensus, or that opinions on it fall along politically partisan lines.
3. Nuclear power. Traditionally, you may be right, but a lot of Ds (including Obama, Kerry, Boxer, and to a lesser extent Pelosi and Reid) have come around in the past 10 years. None of the political debate changes the fact that nuclear plants are very expensive to build, which might be why we didn't see much action on it when the Rs controlled the White House and both chambers of Congress.
4. Anti-GMO. The furthest this has gotten was Sanders's amendment to allow states to require labelling (which is anti-GMO in a similar way as not mandating vaccines is anti-vax), and even that split Senate Ds. FWIW I don't think many people on either side of this issue understand it very well.
5. Alternative medicine. Again I would consider this more unscientific than antiscientific, and it has never been a major issue. There is a related bill this year (S.398), and the cosponsor list skews left, but the actual sponsor is an R.