Countdown to Extinction: The 2016 Presidential Election

[Ken B]

The main point I made was that the GOP is stuck with a monster of its own making.

That's certainly true. When Trump announced I confess I laughed, and thought he'd withdraw at some point, but I told my friends he should scare the bejeezuz out of the GOP. The party's inability to counter him might cost them dearly.

[Karl Henning]

Even if I were molto rather than poco, I would not deny such a thing. I have no idea how many voters will be lost. The main point I made was that the GOP is stuck with a monster of its own making.

As for "a lot," Beecham once stated that Beethoven's 7th is like "a lot of yaks jumping about." I have no idea whether that means 20 yaks, 100, 1278 (i.e., one for each GOP delegate), 1% of the entire yak population, or the entire living species. The nice thing about a "lot" is that it is an indefinite number, but still means, well, a lot.

Perhaps the only certainty is, that Sir Thos meant more than one yak.

[(poco) Sforzando]

So, bottom line:

If the majority of the turnout votes for Trump, is it safe to say that democracy won? And is it safe to say that democracy is always a good thing, no matter who wins?

I want and expect honest answers.

In The Republic, Plato (whose ideal ruler was the philosopher-king) objected to democracy that it assumed each man had equal capacity to cast his own vote (which of course is the defense others make of democracy), and that the least insightful and educated would be on a par with the most thoughtful. He thought that the lower orders would simply be obsessed by their own base desires rather than the good of the society as a whole, and that since all men's desires are in conflict, mob rule and anarchy will result. This leads to a chaotic society in which a superficially strong, charismatic tyrant can take over. (Sound familiar?)

The United States as originally founded was not a pure democracy. Neither slaves nor women could originally vote, and senators were elected by state legislatures rather than popular vote. The system of checks and balances between the three branches (executive, legislative, and judicial) was intended to prevent any branch from assuming too much power. Hope that answers your question.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Perhaps the only certainty is, that Sir Thos meant more than one yak.

But I would say that two yaks is not enough to make a lot. Three maybe, on the principle that two's company, three's a crowd. But still that would seem like a very small lot.

[Ken B]

But I would say that two yaks is not enough to make a lot. Three maybe, on the principle that two's company, three's a crowd. But still that would seem like a very small lot.

I'm glad I didn't say "a plethora".

[Brian]

But I would say that two yaks is not enough to make a lot. Three maybe, on the principle that two's company, three's a crowd. But still that would seem like a very small lot.

I'd suggest that if we consider the context - how many yaks would fit on a concert-hall stage? - then the number may be quite small. In this case I suppose seven or eight yaks would suffice. Once you get past a few dozen yaks, employing them to play Beethoven would be a logistical challenge.

[Ken B]

I'd suggest that if we consider the context - how many yaks would fit on a concert-hall stage? - then the number may be quite small. In this case I suppose seven or eight yaks would suffice. Once you get past a few dozen yaks, employing them to play Beethoven would be a logistical challenge.

Nobody is better at training yaks than Donald Trump. Nobody.

[Karl Henning]

But I would say that two yaks is not enough to make a lot.

On the one hand, that sounds only reasonable.

On the other, I have at least once been one of a party of two, whom a Briton addressed as "you lot."

[Brian]

On the one hand, that sounds only reasonable.

On the other, I have at least once been one of a party of two, whom a Briton addressed as "you lot."

We lot, we happy lot, we band of brothers

[Brian]

I found it amusing to go back to the start of this thread and see some of the very first comments about Trump:

Yeah, I guess so.

Aaaanyway, is Trump running? Perry can't provide all the fun himself.

Only if he can get that thing on his head to sit still long enough...

Meh. Trump has the best name recognition is all. He's not electable even to city council. Pretty soon he'll flamboyantly quit with an "I gave them the best and they were to blind to see" air.

Trump calling anyone else on the planet nothing more than professional agitators is quite possibly the funniest thing I shall read this week.

[on the possibility of Republicans nominating Trump:]
The latter will never happen.  The RNC will take out a contract first.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I'd suggest that if we consider the context - how many yaks would fit on a concert-hall stage? - then the number may be quite small. In this case I suppose seven or eight yaks would suffice. Once you get past a few dozen yaks, employing them to play Beethoven would be a logistical challenge.

When I saw Andriessen's De Materie, the 100 sheep were remarkably well-behaved. Better, in fact, than some members of the audience.

[(poco) Sforzando]

We lot, we happy lot, we band of brothers

But Beecham did not say a "few" yaks, or a "plethora" of yaks.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I found it amusing to go back to the start of this thread and see some of the very first comments about Trump:

[on the possibility of Republicans nominating Trump:]
The latter will never happen.  The RNC will take out a contract first.'

That still is not out of the question.

[Ken B]

I found it amusing to go back to the start of this thread and see some of the very first comments about Trump:

Yeah, I really got Trump wrong at the start. It's like watching Ron Popeil run for president. I thought it was just a vanity boost. It's not, he's serious.
My consolation is that pretty much everyone except Scott Adams got Trump wrong too.

[Brian]

Yeah, I really got Trump wrong at the start. It's like watching Ron Popeil run for president. I thought it was just a vanity boost. It's not, he's serious.
My consolation is that pretty much everyone except Scott Adams got Trump wrong too.

Yeah, being wrong about Trump puts us in some august (and crowded) company.

[Karl Henning]

Yes. On the other hand, this is the second time Hillary was inevitable. I'm not sure voters in general will take Bernie seriously, but I think democrat primary voters might.

The Democrat primary voters did, indeed;  Not the "Suuuuuper Delegates," natch.  And we shan't get the chance to see if voters in general would.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Yeah, being wrong about Trump puts us in some august (and crowded) company.

I am less concerned with this august company than with the far more crowded company in november.

[Herman]

Your mouth to God's ear....
To be fair to the Donald, he was against the Iraq War before most politicians, including a certain senator from New York who later became Secretary of State.

From today's Salon:

Fact: Trump was not an early critic of the Iraq War, and most of his public statements at the time are moderately supportive of it. He only really started criticizing the war in 2004.

You know who was, however, an early critic of the invasion of Iraq? Hillary Clinton. As Fred Kaplan of Slate reported, Clinton spent much of 2002 making very public demands that the Bush administration try diplomacy and treat invasion as a last resort.

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/22/fact_checking_trumps_garbage_truck_of_lies_his_speech_accusing_clinton_of_corruption_is_riddled_with_fiction_and_conspiracies/

[Madiel]

Nobody is better at training yaks than Donald Trump. Nobody.

Ken wins today's discussion.

[Gurn Blanston]

From today's Salon:

Fact: Trump was not an early critic of the Iraq War, and most of his public statements at the time are moderately supportive of it. He only really started criticizing the war in 2004.

You know who was, however, an early critic of the invasion of Iraq? Hillary Clinton. As Fred Kaplan of Slate reported, Clinton spent much of 2002 making very public demands that the Bush administration try diplomacy and treat invasion as a last resort.

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/22/fact_checking_trumps_garbage_truck_of_lies_his_speech_accusing_clinton_of_corruption_is_riddled_with_fiction_and_conspiracies/

Why am I not surprised? This has been a record-setting campaign in so many ways, why not insist on the Big Lie?   

Hey, Herman.