What conductors do

[Superhorn]

  I've spent thousands of hours rehearsing and performing under many different conductors,and beating time is only one part of the job.
   It's an extremely complex one which requires an incredible amount of knowledge and technical skill.
First of all, the conductor has to make a thorough study of the full score,which shows al the different instrumental parts simultaneously. While the individual orchestra members are responsible for their single part,whether strings,woodwind,brass ro percussion, the conductor has to have the ability to read and thoroughly familiarize himself(or increasingly now,herself) with the score.
  Imagine having to read a book with twenty or more different lines going on simultaneously ! That's what the conductor has to do.  Then,there's a great deal of preparation involved before the rehearsals begin. The conductor,along with the concertmaster,has to decide on things such as the bowing of the string parts,to make sure they are all bowing up or down together,as well as marking the score with all kinds of notes and indications.
   Then,at the rehearsal, the conductor goes through any given work and has to make sure that the orchestra is playing together, is in tune, and that everything can be heard clearly.
  The last,or gauging balances,is a very important part of rehearsing. If the brass are to loud,for example,they can drown out the rest of the orchestra.
   There are countless details to take care of.  Sometimes there is a misprint in one of the parts,and the conductor has to clear this up.  There are often many tricky passages which need to be concentrated on,
where the musicians have to follow the conductor carefully to stay together. 
   Finally,when the concert happens, the work has for the most part been done.  But at the concert, the conductor has to do a variety of things silently to keep things together etc.
  There are passages where an entrance for certain musicians is tricky,so the condutor may have to
throw a cue with his hand to make sure the entrance is clean.
   For those who can read music, full scores,sometimes in miniature form, are easily available through music publishers,and it can be a very enlightening experience to follow it with recordings or live performances.
   Miniature scores are very convenient for taking to concerts.
   
   

[(poco) Sforzando]

If you're still interested in conducting techniques, look for a book by Hermann Scherchen. A to Z.

OP was last active October 24, 2008. Sometimes our discussions proceed at glacial pace.

[eyeresist]

The conductor, along with the concertmaster, has to decide on things such as the bowing of the string parts, to make sure they are all bowing up or down together

Ah, but is this strictly necessary? Stokowski advocated free bowing, and his strings sound pretty good, don't they?

[listener]

There's a recent 4-disc set (5 hours listening) - Beecham, the Great Communicator that makes for interesting listening (spread over a few sessions).     Relatively inexpensive.
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[Scarpia]

Ah, but is this strictly necessary? Stokowski advocated free bowing, and his strings sound pretty good, don't they?

Of course it is not "strictly necessary."  It is not strictly necessary to play in tune either.  I don't think Stokowski's strings sound was so good, and the fact that no conductor has chosen to emulate him and that his orchestras dropped the practice the instant he left the podium is significant.

[eyeresist]

Perhaps it's a matter of concertmaster ego?

[Szykneij]

Perhaps it's a matter of concertmaster ego?

Because the choice of bowings greatly affects the articulation of the notes and phrasing of the music, it does have more than capricious importance.

[jochanaan]

Of course it is not "strictly necessary."  It is not strictly necessary to play in tune either.  I don't think Stokowski's strings sound was so good, and the fact that no conductor has chosen to emulate him and that his orchestras dropped the practice the instant he left the podium is significant.

To each his own, of course--and I am not primarily a string player--but I adore the Stokowski string sound.  Stokowski was unique in his attitude toward sound: when he conducted, the orchestra always sounded Stokowski-ish, completely unlike itself.  (I've read that this phenomenon happened at once, without any apparent word from Leopold; apparently, once he began rehearsing, it only took about fifteen minutes for the orchestra, any orchestra, to develop that famous "Stokowski sound.")  With other conductors, individual bowing could well have been an invitation to disaster; but with Stokowski at the podium, the sound at least was always glorious, especially from the strings.  (His musical interpretation is another story. )

[Scarpia]

To each his own, of course--and I am not primarily a string player--but I adore the Stokowski string sound.  Stokowski was unique in his attitude toward sound: when he conducted, the orchestra always sounded Stokowski-ish, completely unlike itself.  (I've read that this phenomenon happened at once, without any apparent word from Leopold; apparently, once he began rehearsing, it only took about fifteen minutes for the orchestra, any orchestra, to develop that famous "Stokowski sound.")  With other conductors, individual bowing could well have been an invitation to disaster; but with Stokowski at the podium, the sound at least was always glorious, especially from the strings.  (His musical interpretation is another story. )

Well, I've never heard Stokowski live, but I've heard a number of his recordings, non of which I found particularly memorable.  If I think of someone who knew how to produce a beautiful string sound, Barbirolli comes to mind, or Karajan (his Metamorphosen, or Schoenberg "Transifigured Night"). 

[MishaK]

Karajan (his Metamorphosen, or Schoenberg "Transifigured Night").

Query whether such a thick broth is exactly what you want for those two pieces. 

[Scarpia]

Query whether such a thick broth is exactly what you want for those two pieces. 

I've certainly enjoyed other recordings, but for the metamorphosen in particular I've never heard a recording that satisfied more than Karajan's 1981 recording.  There is a sensuous sound, but not at the expense of clarity of texture, in my experience.

[Renfield]

Query whether such a thick broth is exactly what you want for those two pieces. 

It might not exactly be 'as intended', but the white-heat live Verklärte Nacht from his last London concert is a pretty convincing broth, I'd say!

Also a good case study on how a conductor can shape a performance in unexpected, but still (IMO) remarkably effective ways.

[MishaK]

It might not exactly be 'as intended', but the white-heat live Verklärte Nacht from his last London concert is a pretty convincing broth, I'd say!

Also a good case study on how a conductor can shape a performance in unexpected, but still (IMO) remarkably effective ways.

I don't buy into that whole "as intended" concept anyway. But FWIW, I find e.g. Luisi more rewarding in Metamorphosen. Though I am only familiar with HvK's Metamorphosen from the DG Originals issue that's coupled with Four Last Songs and Tod und Verklärung, I don't know that London concert you're referring to.

[Scarpia]

I don't buy into that whole "as intended" concept anyway. But FWIW, I find e.g. Luisi more rewarding in Metamorphosen. Though I am only familiar with HvK's Metamorphosen from the DG Originals issue that's coupled with Four Last Songs and Tod und Verklärung, I don't know that London concert you're referring to.

The DG originals recording of Metamorphosen is unlistenable, in my opinion, mainly because of the poor audio quality.  The 1981 recording is another world. 

[asin]B00000E2OB[/asin]

I have this but haven't listened yet:

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[Renfield]

I have this but haven't listened yet:

[asin]B001IT75FU[/asin]

That's the one. For what it's worth, it's one of those discs I'll be posting in that 'essentials' thread, when I decide on the remaining 24 items.

Even more than the Schönberg, that Brahms 1st is possibly the most sheerly powerful symphonic performance I have ever heard.


Also, although this doesn't exactly help the thread get back on topic, Karajan's best Metamorphosen (IMO) is this one:

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[Scarpia]

Also, although this doesn't exactly help the thread get back on topic, Karajan's best Metamorphosen (IMO) is this one:

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I have that one as well, but it is hard to compare with other version because the sound (1949 as I recall) is problematic. 

[Renfield]

I have that one as well, but it is hard to compare with other version because the sound (1949 as I recall) is problematic.

I think it's a decent mono recording for its age. Which, depending on one's tolerance for decent late-40's mono recordings, may match your above description.

Although hearing the latest issue of Karajan's Philharmonia Beethoven cycle, it's possible a better remastering might significantly improve things.


Maybe we should have these posts moved to the Karajan thread? Assuming it hasn't fallen victim to the anti-Karajan bloc in my absence.


Ah, there! Something on-topic: conductors certainly do enough for some of them to have people lobbying against their person.

[MishaK]

The DG originals recording of Metamorphosen is unlistenable, in my opinion, mainly because of the poor audio quality.  The 1981 recording is another world. 

[asin]B00000E2OB[/asin]

I have this but haven't listened yet:

[asin]B001IT75FU[/asin]

Ah, I wasn't aware of the other ones. Thanks.

[listener]

Critic tries conducting  - nice NYT story http://nymag.com/arts/classicaldance/classical/features/conductors-2012-1/

[Superhorn]

  The late conductor Max Rudolf (1902-1992 ) wrote an excellent book called The Grammar Of Conducting , which has long been used by budding young conductors . It ocntains many helpful diagrams of beat patterns, etc.