What Jazz are you listening to now?

[San Antone]

the original generation of bebop bass players (Potter, Curly Russell and a few others - not Ray Brown or Mingus or Al McKibbon I think) lagged behind a bit and was mostly playing anchors to the antics of the horns, the keys and all the bombs and other fancy stuff the drummers dropped (Roy Haynes being maybe the best example for "irregular" playing, not falling into any kind of patterns). But the bass players had to wait for Mingus (or go back to Oscar Pettiford, who was of course around, but not often in the recording studio when Bird or Dizzy or Bud were at work) to see their instrument's "emancipation"

I think you are being unfair to Curly Russell and Tommy Potter. But there is much to disagree with in your post.

First of all, the primary function of the bass in a jazz group is to anchor the rhythmic and harmonic progression - a major component of swing is the interplay between the bass and drums: how they approach the beat.  While the drummer "drops bombs" and otherwise plays on top of and around the beat, the tension created with a bassist providing a steady, anchoring pulse, is what can cause the music to take off and float.  Experiencing this on a bandstand is the greatest thing any jazz musician can have and is what everyone hopes to achieve. 

The bass has never needed "emancipation" - in fact too many less talented musicians were influenced by Scotty LaFaro (who expanded the role of the bass while not sacrificing any of its traditional, anchoring, aspects) lowered their strings in order to play faster, but in the process lost much in their tone and volume, and attempted to play solos behind the band. 

I was fortunate to play with some great drummers, some of whom you have heard of, Louis Hayes, Al Foster, Adam Nussbaum, Tom Whalley and I never heard them complain about a bass player being an anchor, which is what they looked for, and what I hoped to provide.  However, their main complaint, often expressed, was that too many bassists were playing solo-style throughout (too much high register, lots of fills and flourishes) and not fulfilling the primary role of a bassist - which is to be a strong, steady, anchoring foundation for the explosive drum style they exhibited.

Think Jimmy Garrison with Elvin Jones.

[king ubu]

I think you are being unfair to Curly Russell and Tommy Potter. But there is much to disagree with in your post.

First of all, the primary function of the bass in a jazz group is to anchor the rhythmic and harmonic progression - a major component of swing is the interplay between the bass and drums: how they approach the beat.  While the drummer "drops bombs" and otherwise plays on top of and around the beat, the tension created with a bassist providing a steady, anchoring pulse, is what can cause the music to take off and float.  Experiencing this on a bandstand is the greatest thing any jazz musician can have and is what everyone hopes to achieve. 

The bass has never needed "emancipation" - in fact too many less talented musicians were influenced by Scotty LaFaro (who expanded the role of the bass while not sacrificing any of its traditional, anchoring, aspects) lowered their strings in order to play faster, but in the process lost much in their tone and volume, and attempted to play solos behind the band. 

I was fortunate to play with some great drummers, some of whom you have heard of, Louis Hayes, Al Foster, Adam Nussbaum, Tom Whalley and I never heard them complain about a bass player being an anchor, which is what they looked for, and what I hoped to provide.  However, their main complaint, often expressed, was that too many bassists were playing solo-style throughout (too much high register, lots of fills and flourishes) and not fulfilling the primary role of a bassist - which is to be a strong, steady, anchoring foundation for the explosive drum style they exhibited.

Think Jimmy Garrison with Elvin Jones.

I agree on all points!

I think my point is that even when you walk a line, there's much of a difference to be made in phrasing, in sound, in "oomph", in phrasing, and of course in choice of notes. My quibbles with the likes of Russell or Potter is that their phrasing is not really to my liking: they keep their notes rather short and separate them from the next one, while someone like Heath or Chambers or Watkins lets the notes flow, if that makes sense. Also, not everybody had as fine an ear as Watkins (one of my favourites) or Hinton or Duvivier or Vinnegar when walking a line.

Regarding LaFaro, I'm two-sided ... on the one hand I adore his musicianship, on the other I pretty much loathe his influence on those players you describe.

My perception is just that, while Dizzy and Bird and Bud and Monk and Max and Roy and a few others took giant steps in the early/mid forties, the bass players somehow didn't go along really. I tend to find the 30s bass players (Braud, Foster, Walter Page) more interesting than most of the bebop generation bass players. Mingus was different of course (and Pettiford, as I hope I clarified, was different, too - but not present on many of the classic bop records, that's what I meand), and I guess he's about as much of an anchor as you can get, but at the same time he has that eruptive quality that allows him to steer a band from the bass, which I totally admire. He would have been too strong to play in any one's band for sure, so he had his own, with music that was his own (and that is hard to re-create without him in the middle, though I think the Mingus Big Band does quite a great job). Anyway, I love many of the bass players that made their name in the mid/late 50s: Heath, Watkins, Jones, Ware, Chambers, George Tucker, Art Davis, Richard Davis ... also Leroy Vinnegar, Curtis Counce and Jimmy Bond in California ... and a bit later Charlie Haden, of course, one of my big favourites.

And I certainly envy you for that experience - playing with Hayes, Foster, Nussbaum and the like ... must be mind-blowing!

[San Antone]

You have to love these recordings.

[San Antone]

My quibbles with the likes of Russell or Potter is that their phrasing is not really to my liking: they keep their notes rather short and separate them from the next one,

Probably it is a combination of how they had their basses set up, they could have been using gut strings, and of course recording technology.  Still I prefer the sound a the bass in older recordings to those where the bass is using a pickup and sent straight into the board.  I actually despise the sound of most modern bassists using a pickup (another consequence of lowering the strings).  The CTI recordings of Ron Carter are horrible, imo.  But the bottom-line is that Curly Russell and Tommy Potter were used quite a lot, and could handle the fast tempos - so I tip my hat to them.

And I certainly envy you for that experience - playing with Hayes, Foster, Nussbaum and the like ... must be mind-blowing!

Baptism by fire in most cases; I subbed for Dennis Irwin quite a lot and was never their first choice - but I made the gig.   

[Brian]

However, their main complaint, often expressed, was that too many bassists were playing solo-style throughout (too much high register, lots of fills and flourishes) and not fulfilling the primary role of a bassist - which is to be a strong, steady, anchoring foundation for the explosive drum style they exhibited.

Think Jimmy Garrison with Elvin Jones.

Maybe this is why Mingus and Roach got in such a fight at the "Money Jungle" sessions??

[king ubu]

Baptism by fire in most cases; I subbed for Dennis Irwin quite a lot and was never their first choice - but I made the gig.   

Oh wow, that's amazing!

Regarding fast tempos, that's a good point indeed - another one that could handle them and was never into any antics was George Morrow, who played with the Brown/Roach quintet (they had some amazingly fast tempos going on, sometimes too fast to even pat your foot without losing it).

Btw, I wish I could post some thread duty stuff, but alas I'm at the office where I can't listen to any music.

[king ubu]

Maybe this is why Mingus and Roach got in such a fight at the "Money Jungle" sessions??

Hm, the story goes that they developed a different idea of "time" ... and that usually the bass player will go with the drummer in such cases. But if you know about Mingus, you know he'll not "go with" anyone - I think in his book he writes that only out of respect for Ellington (his biggest idol for sure) he didn't leave. There's a lot of tension in the music, which may or may not be related to that "time" explanation (I'm not sure, but I think it's plausible) - but the results are amazing, it's one of my favourite recordings for sure!

Oh, and as I'm distracted, being at work and all that ... I agree on pick-up sound. Totally. I listen to plenty of 70s recordings, but recordings like the ones by Woody Shaw always take me a while to get used to the bass sound. CTI is a sound I never really grew to like, but the Freddie Hubbard albums (and a few more, "God Bless the Child" by Kenny Burrell, some Turrentine ...) are still albums I'd not want to miss.

[San Antone]

Maybe this is why Mingus and Roach got in such a fight at the "Money Jungle" sessions??

Both Max Roach and Mingus had headstrong personalities, and each had definite ideas about how to play their instruments and the role of each.  However, don't forget that Mingus also left (rather violently) the Duke Ellington band long before the Money Jungle sessions. 

[San Antone]

The music on this CD, the first of five discs put out by the Jazz Crusade label, traces the short-lived quintet co-led by Sidney Bechet and Bunk Johnson in 1945. Unfortunately, Johnson's drinking led to the trumpeter being erratic and soon leaving the band, but Bechet (on clarinet and soprano) is in excellent form and there are some good moments on this CD. The co-leaders are backed by pianist Ray Parker, bassist Pops Foster, and drummer George Thompson on such numbers as "Royal Garden Blues," "I Know That You Know," and "Muskrat Ramble." The music on this disc is taken from three radio broadcasts and, in addition, there are two brief interviews. Nothing too essential but an interesting acquisition for Bechet and Johnson fans.

[king ubu]

^ that looks interesting, never heard of that label or those broadcasts!

--

Thread duty:

[SimonNZ]

Billy Taylor - One For Fun (1960)
John Lewis - The Golden Striker (1960)



Fred Kaz - Eastern Exposure (1960)

is that cracker of an album really the only one that Fred Kaz made?

[San Antone]

Disc 2 from the Hot Fives set -



Much better sounding since by these recordings they were using the electronic microphone instead of the acoustical cone used in the first disc.

[George]

Listening to this lovely album.

[San Antone]

Donald Harrison who broke onto the scene in the '80s as a member of Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers, and then co-led a quintet with Terrence Blanchard, is found here in a piano-less trio with Ron Carter and Billy Cobham.  He comes from New Orleans, and grew up in a family that was a prominent member of the Mardi Gras Indian tradition.  Here Harrison shows off his excellent post-bop chops.

This trio plays five selections and Harrison also engages in three duets with the bassist. Whether it is a minor blues ("One of a Kind"), the "I Got Rhythm" chords of "Double Trouble," "Solar," or the melancholy "Candlelight," Harrison shows that he is a superior improviser with a sound of his own.

[king ubu]

just got this ... Jarman's death reminded me how little I have of his beyond AEoC ... there's a recent reissue package (LP+CD) that looks official from what I can tell (and that's what I bought):
https://www.discogs.com/Joseph-Jarman-Don-Moye-Featuring-Johnny-Dyani-Black-Paladins/release/7561870

[SimonNZ]

Woody Herman - Woody Herman's Big New Herd At The Monterey Jazz Festival (1960)
Slide Hampton - Sister Salvation (1960)

[king ubu]

A mixed bunch these days ... four big band albums by Urbie Green released by the Spanish pirates, but not easy to find elsewhere. Green is great of course, but much of it is dance music rather than real jazz. There are plenty of good spots though, not just for Green, but also for the likes of Hal McKusick, Al Cohn, Hank Jones, Pepper Adams ... if you like easy-going big band music, these albums are an easy recommendation.

The Kidd Jordan is another new acquisition ... it has the late Alvin Fielder on drums in a long, old-fashioned free/energy blow-out that I quite enjoyed. Joe Futterman (on piano etc.) and William Parker are the others in the band, and I quite like what Parker does here (same goes for the James Brandon Lewis album "Divine Travels", which it seems I forgot to mention here a few days ago). Usually I'm not too big on Parker, mostly because of his sound, which too often comes close to fingernails on a blackboard to my ears (which is my loss, of course - I am fully aware of how many great recordings he's on and how many musicians I admire are working with him, and I keep trying ... also heard him live several times, and some nights were easier for me than others, i.e. a trio with Oliver Lake and a local drummer was pretty great).



Yesterday's late night listen consisted of this fine 1981 bop album by Gianni Basso, an italian tenor saxophonist who has definitely developed his own musical character. Then on to the Spanish cohorts again, with the most recent reissue of the two albums by John Benson Brooks - I finally had to hear "Folk Jazz U.S.A." and I don't think there's an easy way to get it (no proper CD reissue by RCA that I know of, or none that was still around when I started looking). It's a lovely album for sure, and having Nick Travis, Zoot Sims (on alto exclusively - and very good ... I think this would make interesting blindfold material!), Al Cohn (on baritone) and Barry Galbraith surely doesn't do any harm.



Right now I'm giving a first spin to Equal Interest, the trio/album of Joseph Jarman with Leroy Jenkins and Myra Melford. Read about this group in a Jarman obituary some days and felt I had to check this out. Very, very good! I guess it's a mixture of jazz, various kinds of ethnic/folk (not to say "world"), and plenty of classical touches added. Melford doubles of (Indian) harmonium, Jarman switches between flute, alto, a Vietnamese oboe and some percussion, Jenkins is heard on violin and viola.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

High time to check in on this thread.


#morninglistening to new #JohnScofield release: not #classicalmusic per se but a classic!

: http://a-fwd.to/2w23Jui

♡Just *LOVE* #Scofield ♡ Which merits the rare #Jazz intrusion into my posts.

Sounds like he's picking up with #Combo66 wher... http://bit.ly/2HiHXEk

[San Antone]

High time to check in on this thread.


#morninglistening to new #JohnScofield release: not #classicalmusic per se but a classic!

: http://a-fwd.to/6yeYKa3

♡Just *LOVE* #Scofield ♡ Which merits the rare #Jazz intrusion into my posts.

Sounds like he's picking up with #Combo66 wher... http://bit.ly/2HiHXEk

(Your link goes to Schubert/Kempff) - welcome to the Jazz thread!

But Scofield is excellent, he just keeps putting out quality recordings.  A Go Go is probably my favorite, but you can almost drop the needle anywhere in his output in the last twenty years and come up with something just about as good.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

(Your link goes to Schubert/Kempff) - welcome to the Jazz thread!

But Scofield is excellent, he just keeps putting out quality recordings.  A Go Go is probably my favorite, but you can almost drop the needle anywhere in his output in the last twenty years and come up with something just about as good.

A Go Go was my introduction, too (or was it Bump?). Had me hooked from the first sound. (Link fixed, thanks for noticing.)