György Ligeti (1923-2006)

[Mirror Image]

What is the overall opinion of the Hamburg Concerto? I really like the use of the extra horns as natural brass instruments in it, much like in the horn trio. However, I feel that the piece is just too short, and I wish it were a bit more substantial, similar to the violin concerto.

The Hamburg Concerto is a very cool work. I think this may have been one of the first Ligeti works I heard. It was enough for me to explore his music in depth. It has great sonorities and textures. I don't remember anything about the length, but I'll have to revisit it soon.

[not edward]

The piano concerto takes quite a bit from the first book of piano etudes, so one can argue that that piece is also quite derivative, not that there's anything wrong with that. The cello concerto and chamber concerto seem to be entirely "original", if one could even say that, given that the style is completely different. I would agree that the violin concerto is a sort of summing up, though.

What is the overall opinion of the Hamburg Concerto? I really like the use of the extra horns as natural brass instruments in it, much like in the horn trio. However, I feel that the piece is just too short, and I wish it were a bit more substantial, similar to the violin concerto.

I'd agree the Hamburg Concerto is too short; it also feels underdeveloped to me, more like a suite of fifteen or so retrospective miniatures. The addition of the final movement did help a lot in terms of the overall shape of the work, but as with the third book of Etudes and the viola sonata, I think the level of inspiration has fallen off markedly from his peak.

For me, the best of the very late works is Síppal, dobbal, nádihegedüvel; a modest-in-ambition work but executed with a flair and sense of humour that is sadly lacking to me in other works of that period.

[Mirror Image]

For me, the best of the very late works is Síppal, dobbal, nádihegedüvel; a modest-in-ambition work but executed with a flair and sense of humour that is sadly lacking to me in other works of that period.

That's a fun work!

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I have wanted Christian Tetzlaff to record this work for so long now; his performance of it at the 2000 Edinburgh Festival still lingers in my mind.

Ha, I heard Tetzlaff do it that very same year in New York, with Boulez/LSO. I also heard the piece here in Moscow last year, played by a local new music group as part of a Ligeti-Lutoslawski program called "Double Portrait."

Agree with the general opinion, that it's the best of his concerti.

[Sandra]

One night I heard Ligetti's string quartet (no 1) on a classical music channel. It sounded so similar to Bartok I was sure it was one of Bartok's quartets. So I took bet with my sister (a violist) who said it wasn't Bartok... I lost the bet when the title come on.

His second quartet though... is very different from Bartok, that's where he explores his real personal style.

[Roberto]

One night I heard Ligetti's string quartet (no 1) on a classical music channel. It sounded so similar to Bartok I was sure it was one of Bartok's quartets. So I took bet with my sister (a violist) who said it wasn't Bartok... I lost the bet when the title come on.

His second quartet though... is very different from Bartok, that's where he explores his real personal style.

Although I haven't heard any of Ligeti's work yet, I've read an interview-book about him. He said the 2nd quartet was his first piece where he could realize his intentions most clearly first. The 1st was a Bartókian work because Bartók influenced him mostly. After the II. World War he knew well Bartók only. He influenced by Stravinsky and Berg a little but he don't know other modern composers at this time. The the first half of the 50's he realized that he has to leave the Bartókian model. The 2nd quartet summarizes his new thinking. He said the 2nd quartet contains the sound of the 1st also although very dissolved.

[Sandra]

Although I haven't heard any of Ligeti's work yet, I've read an interview-book about him. He said the 2nd quartet was his first piece where he could realize his intentions most clearly first. The 1st was a Bartókian work because Bartók influenced him mostly. After the II. World War he knew well Bartók only. He influenced by Stravinsky and Berg a little but he don't know other modern composers at this time. The the first half of the 50's he realized that he has to leave the Bartókian model. The 2nd quartet summarizes his new thinking. He said the 2nd quartet contains the sound of the 1st also although very dissolved.

Oh yeah! Those two quartets are very different. But after hearing them again, I do see that even his first quartet had pretty original features. Great fun to listen to. I wish had written 10 such "Bartokian" quartets before moving on with other experiments.

[snyprrr]

Oh yeah! Those two quartets are very different. But after hearing them again, I do see that even his first quartet had pretty original features. Great fun to listen to. I wish had written 10 such "Bartokian" quartets before moving on with other experiments.

Husa and Adler, amongst others. have Great Early Bartokian SQs.

[Mirror Image]

Ligeti fans need to get a hold of this: Peter Eotvos's latest Ligeti release. Eotvos conducting Ligeti is always an event because of his importance in the contemporary movement: assisstant of Pierre Boulez at the Ensemble Intercontemporain and his successor. Besides, he is a good conductor. Ligeti's drama was, he wanted to sound like Penderecki and Lutoslawski, but Penderecki and Lutoslawski already sounded that way; so, he was stuck with taking the harmonic motifs & adopting sounds no one else wanted to use. Well, except science-fiction authors: as the the Requiem sounds like Captain Picard sucked by a time warp into Umberto Ecco's Middle Age.

What label is this on and is it released yet?

[Mirror Image]

Yes it has been released: just got my copy today (I ordered it from one of the European Amazons, amazon.UK offering the best postal rate). It's published by the Budapest Music Center (BMC), it also included a DVD, which I have not looked at yet but which seems to feature the same music as the CD.

Thanks for the information, Toucan. I'll be checking this one out.

[MDL]

Ligeti fans need to get a hold of this: Peter Eotvos's latest Ligeti release. Eotvos conducting Ligeti is always an event because of his importance in the contemporary movement: assisstant of Pierre Boulez at the Ensemble Intercontemporain and his successor. Besides, he is a good conductor. Ligeti's drama was, he wanted to sound like Penderecki and Lutoslawski, but Penderecki and Lutoslawski already sounded that way; so, he was stuck with taking the harmonic motifs & adopting sounds no one else wanted to use. Well, except science-fiction authors: as the the Requiem sounds like an androgin from out of space sucked by a time warp into Umberto Ecco's Middle Age.

BLOODY HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had no idea that a new Requiem had been released. It's one of my all-time favourite pieces. I will be scuttling off to the record shop first thing on Monday (will be too busy at the Thames Festival tomorrow). Thanks for posting.

£24.90 on Amazon. Ouchy-ouch!

[Roberto]

Ligeti fans need to get a hold of this: Peter Eotvos's latest Ligeti release.

Yes! I've bought it yesterday at the Palace of arts Budapest along with this one:

These are my first Ligeti recordings. I've checked it on earphones but the real test will be at weekend on my hi-fi. The first impression: magical.

[lescamil]

I must get my hands on both of those recordings. Any idea if both or either of those will make it to the American Amazon.com? I'd like to get them without paying an arm and a leg.

[Roberto]

I must get my hands on both of those recordings. Any idea if both or either of those will make it to the American Amazon.com? I'd like to get them without paying an arm and a leg.

Unfortunately I don't know. On the BMC homepage there are distributors: http://bmc.hu/. I've found it on http://www.jpc.de/ also (although I don't know if they post overseas).

[MDL]

Ligeti fans need to get a hold of this: Peter Eotvos's latest Ligeti release. Eotvos conducting Ligeti is always an event because of his importance in the contemporary movement: assisstant of Pierre Boulez at the Ensemble Intercontemporain and his successor. Besides, he is a good conductor. Ligeti's drama was, he wanted to sound like Penderecki and Lutoslawski, but Penderecki and Lutoslawski already sounded that way; so, he was stuck with taking the harmonic motifs & adopting sounds no one else wanted to use. Well, except science-fiction authors: as the the Requiem sounds like an androgin from out of space sucked by a time warp into Umberto Ecco's Middle Age.

Arrived from Amazon yesterday; played it to death already. A friend asked me if this is the revised version of the Requiem, but I haven't noticed anything radically different to the Wergo or Teldec versions. There's some really impressive choral work, particularly in the Kyrie, although I don't think the Kyrie is as focused as the previous recordings. On the whole, I think I prefer it to Nott, but I'll need to give that another whirl to compare.

[petrarch]

Speaking of Eotvos, heard thru the grapevine that he will be conducting MOMENTE feat. soprano Julia Bauer in Lisbon shortly (November 10th & 11th) - hopefully this will coincide with recording sessions?
.

It's official:

http://www.teatromariamatos.pt/pt/prog/musica/20112012/momente
http://musicaonline.sapo.pt/agenda/105582

If I still lived there I would attend. Gulbenkian in Lisbon is where I attended some of the most memorable concerts and premieres of my life.

About recording sessions, I am sure Pedro Amaral will be recording it all.

[Roberto]

Arrived from Amazon yesterday; played it to death already.

I've heard this CD right now. It was absolutely thrilling. The Requiem is one of the darkest music I've ever heard. Terrifying and exalted at the same time. The Apparitions is great and interesting and so is the San Francisco Polyphony where the tunes and rhythms start to go back to Ligeti's music.

[MDL]

Speaking of Eotvos, heard thru the grapevine that he will be conducting MOMENTE feat. soprano Julia Bauer in Lisbon shortly (November 10th & 11th) - hopefully this will coincide with recording sessions?
.

Splutter! Gasp! How amazing would it be to have an accessible recording of Momente? Wish I could go to  the concert; the one time I've heard it live (Queen Elizabeth Hall, London, well over a decade ago) was absolutely wonderful. As wonderful as the first time I heard Ligeti's Requiem live, with Ligeti in attendance; he handed out sunflowers to the soloists, which was a suitably odd touch.

James, Toucan? Please kiss and make up.

[Roberto]

I listened to the Apparitions and San Francisco Polyphony at least 3 times at weekend. (The Requiem only once. It is an emotionally wearing work so I have to wait more before I listen to it again.) I've heard some electronic ambient works before and I noticed that sometimes Ligeti gives us very "electronic" sonority from a classical orchestra. It was very interesting.

[MDL]

I listened to the Apparitions and San Francisco Polyphony at least 3 times at weekend. (The Requiem only once. It is an emotionally wearing work so I have to wait more before I listen to it again.) I've heard some electronic ambient works before and I noticed that sometimes Ligeti gives us very "electronic" sonority from a classical orchestra. It was very interesting.

The Requiem is indeed wrenching, but I've always found its weird mix of awe, comic hysteria and pathos utterly gripping and addictive.