Favorite Bebop Jazz?

[SKYIO]

Or hard behop

[Scion7]

Oh, stuff like 50's Johnny Griffin and Hank Mobley, Jackie McLean and Lee Morgan's early stuff - Modern Jazz was just around the corner and changed things drastically ....

[king ubu]

It's Bebop (and Hard Bop) - and it's my bread and butter!

Re: Bebop, for starters, the Savoy and Dial studio sessions by Charlie Parker, the Town Hall 1945 concert by Dizzy Gillespie and Parker, the early Blue Note sessions by Bud Powell, the Tadd Dameron/Fats Navarro recordings (in studio for Blue Note and Savoy, as well as various air-checks, some released on Fantasy), the Parker live material on Savoy (some with Miles, much with Kenny Dorham), the Sonny Stitt/Bud Powell sessions on Prestige, the Dizzy Gillespie sessions on RCA Victor and Savoy (the big band mostly, but there's some great small group music to be found, too), also Dizzy's "Showtime at the Spotlite, 52nd Street, New York City, June 1946" on Uptown (the same label that unearthed the 1945 Town Hall concert), the Dexter Gordon Dial and Savoy sessions, the Coleman Hawkins Signature, Asch, Aladdin and Apollo sessions (some fine swing-to-bop material), the early fifties trio recordings by George Wallington and Al Haig, the 1950 Birdland material by Charlie Parker with Fats Navarro, the Massey Hall Concert (Parker, Dizzy, Powell, Charles Mingus and Max Roach). Also, though he's not a bebopper really (rather a unique appearance on all accounts): Thelonious Monk's Blue Note recordings.

Hard Bop is quite a different animal ...

[SKYIO]

It's Bebop (and Hard Bop) - and it's my bread and butter!

Re: Bebop, for starters, the Savoy and Dial studio sessions by Charlie Parker, the Town Hall 1945 concert by Dizzy Gillespie and Parker, the early Blue Note sessions by Bud Powell, the Tadd Dameron/Fats Navarro recordings (in studio for Blue Note and Savoy, as well as various air-checks, some released on Fantasy), the Parker live material on Savoy (some with Miles, much with Kenny Dorham), the Sonny Stitt/Bud Powell sessions on Prestige, the Dizzy Gillespie sessions on RCA Victor and Savoy (the big band mostly, but there's some great small group music to be found, too), also Dizzy's "Showtime at the Spotlite, 52nd Street, New York City, June 1946" on Uptown (the same label that unearthed the 1945 Town Hall concert), the Dexter Gordon Dial and Savoy sessions, the Coleman Hawkins Signature, Asch, Aladdin and Apollo sessions (some fine swing-to-bop material), the early fifties trio recordings by George Wallington and Al Haig, the 1950 Birdland material by Charlie Parker with Fats Navarro, the Massey Hall Concert (Parker, Dizzy, Powell, Charles Mingus and Max Roach). Also, though he's not a bebopper really (rather a unique appearance on all accounts): Thelonious Monk's Blue Note recordings.

Hard Bop is quite a different animal ...

Thank you so much. Those tracks were brilliant, most worthy of being played in my car after work!


So this Hard bop.. Do you like it?

[king ubu]

Yes! Hard Bop more of less is my bread and butter, my musical home turf - you bet I love it! I've had periods of fatuation where some of its more formulaic aspects put me off, but it's like the first love I always return to!

[asin]0195085566[/asin]

Actually I just read David H. Rosenthal's book "Hard Bop" for the first time, it's more a long essay than an in-depth study, but it offers some good insight and suggests some groupings of musicians that seems rather sensible to me.

My own recapitulation (quotes are from Rosenthal):

1) the popular ones in that were operating in between jazz and "popular black tradition" (rhythm & blues etc.): Horace Silver, Cannonball Adderley, Jimmy Smith ... making ample use of blues, gospel, latin beats, producing tunes that made the jukeboxes ("This Here", "Song for My Father" ...)

2) "more astringent, less popular" musicians, "starker and more tormented": Tina Brooks, Jackie McLean, Mal Waldron, Elmo Hope ... not those that had the same big success as the first group, more interested in expressive music making and often somewhat less technically equipped than the preceding beboppers (hey, we're still talking world-class guys ... and obviously hardly anyone was as expressive as Cannonball ... but "stark and tormented" he's definitely not) - this is more about different priorities than abilities really - and about matching means with what they wanted to express

3) the "lyricists" - guess one could debate about them being hard boppers in the first place - Rosenthal compares hard bop, as a style, with "mainstream" (the term coined by Stanley Dance in the fifties, applied to all that went on in between the early beginnings and the bebop "revolution"). In that sense, hard bop was able to allow lots of different styles or variants. This group, he suggests, comprises for instance: Art Farmer, Gigi Gryce, Benny Golson (the Tadd Dameron youth if you want - Jimmy Heath is one of 'em, but he fits group 2 better), as well as the Detroit pianists: Hank Jones, Tommy Flanagan (Rosenthal seems to put Barry Harris with group 2, I'd put him with the died-in-the-wool beboppers and in the hard bop era (since it was able to allow and encompass. to some degree, orthodox bebop as well, rather with this group)

4) the "experimentalists": Andrew Hill, Sonny Rollins, John Coltrane (up to 1965, when with "Ascension" he broke out of hard bop for good), Thelonious Monk, Charles Mingus - their music reaches further back and yet looks into the future with more resolution than any of the other groups' - their playing influenced and stimulated the music of groups 1 and 2 (and I guess to a lesser extent, sometimes of group 3 as well)

Anyway, this is debatable of course, but it helps and the way Rosenthal spells it out later in his book makes a lot of sense to me.

Another point he makes: hard bop does not hark back to cool ... it goes back to bebop of course, but with bop mostly being dead around 1950 and cool sounds taking over, in the wake of Miles Davis' "tuba band" (its sides were compiled on Capitol as "Birth of the Cool"), those musicians interested in what would turn out as hard bop were mostly playing in different groups. The lineage runs, according to Rosenthal. from bebop via rhythm & blues to hard bop (this was a thought new to me, though I was well aware of the dues paid by many hard boppers in R & B outfits - Johnny Griffin or Gene Ammons for instance ... Ammons is interesting anyway, in his synthetization of Lester Young and Coleman Hawkins, he was working with R & B bands as well as with Woody Herman's big band, yet he was always Gene Ammons - guess Wardell Gray could have been similar, if he had lived).

Noal Cohen makes some very good points about the origins of hard bop as well, also taking into account technical advance (the long play):

In my opinion, several factors associated with 1953-1955 are worth emphasizing here:

1. The reemergence of African-American musicians such as Miles Davis, Howard McGhee, Sonny Rollins, Max Roach and many others who, for a brief period, had been overshadowed by performers, mostly white, associated with a style nebulously called "cool jazz" including Chet Baker, Gerry Mulligan, Lennie Tristano, George Shearing, Shorty Rogers and Dave Brubeck. Ironically, it was Davis's nine-piece ensemble of 1948-50 and its recorded output for Capitol Records that was dubbed "The Birth of the Cool." It should also be noted that as the 1950s wore on, even musicians who had come to prominence as part of the "cool school" were modifying their approaches to incorporate the compelling stylistic nuances of hard bop.

2. A return to the 12-bar blues form as a cornerstone of the repertoire (e.g. Opus de Funk, Walkin').

3. A major enhancement in the nature and quality of jazz composition leading to a new and often challenging catalog of vehicles for improvisation that, harmonically, went beyond lines based on standard chord structures so common (and overdone) in bebop. Leading the way in this regard were performer/composers including Horace Silver, Gigi Gryce, Benny Golson, Elmo Hope and John Lewis and arranger/composers like Quincy Jones and Ernie Wilkins.

4. The "settling" of the rhythm section into a unified entity that propelled soloists to great heights without being disruptive. Particularly notable was the transformation of drummers from bebop "bomb-droppers" often seemingly on autopilot to dynamics-oriented, supportive musicians, led, in this regard, by Kenny Clarke, Art Blakey, Max Roach (all veterans of bebop's formative years), Art Taylor and Philly Joe Jones.

5. The advent of the 33 1/3-rpm, long-playing record releasing musicians from the time restrictions imposed by the 78-rpm single format. In addition, improvements in recording technology and fidelity pioneered by engineers like Rudy Van Gelder vastly increased the sound quality of jazz recordings over what, up to about 1953, had been the norm. The capture of music on magnetic tape rather than the acetate disc was a major factor in this transformation. By 1951, the independent, jazz-oriented labels had begun to issue recordings on the 10-inch LP format. Many of these were collections of material previously released as 78-rpm singles but soon recording sessions were aimed at initial release as an LP. This was the standard in 1953 and by 1955 the 12-inch 33 1/3-rpm disc was the preferred medium allowing 30 minutes or more of music to be included on a single issue. 1956 ushered in a virtual explosion in recording activity that would continue for nearly another decade.

http://www.attictoys.com/jazz/50thHBAnn_Intro.php


Fats Navarro & Sonny Rollins, 1949

Actually, next week I'll have one hour webradio show on the "birth of hard bop" coming up ... don't want to spread the playlist yet, but it opens with the 1949 Bud Powell quintet date on Blue Note, with Fats Navarro and Sonny Rollins. While that is not a hard bop date proper, the atmosphere of most of the tunes (all but Monk's "52nd Street Theme" which is take in a fast boppish manner) is more relaxed, the way Sonny Rollins carves out his lines, his phrasing - there's a different air in that, compared to bebop. Also Fats Navarro ... his marvelous tone, his relaxed manner, his stress on line and melody (over speed and dazzling virtuosity, of which he surely was capable of as well) - a "lyricist"? Hellyeah!



Another early cornerstone is Miles Davis' 1951 sextet session with Rollins and Jackie McLean. Art Blakey is on drums and we get some of the most familiar rhythmical characteristics of hard here, possibly for the first time. Rollins is again very good, while McLean seems to struggle with his own ideas, his Bird leanings, his technical limitations (he was to develop strongly, but I favour his later recordings, "Jackie's Bag" and "New Soil" are great, but with "Let Freedom Ring" he opens a new chapter indeed). Fascinating for sure, but not great, I'd say. Miles though was essential in developing hard bop, his dates with Horace Silver, Percy Heath and Blakey, later Kenny Clarke, in my view, form the first important bulk of hard bop recordings. This starts with sessions for Prestige (one for Blue Note) in 1953, sometimes adding another horn (great Davey Schildkraut, and then there's the "Walkin'" date with Lucky Thompson and J.J. Johnson), culminating in the 1954 session with Sonny Rollins that was relaased on "Bags Groove":



Of course, the remainder of the album came from the 1954 x-mas session Miles did with Thelonious Monk and Milt Jackson - pure bliss!


my quick personal list of important albums and favourites:

Miles Davis - Walkin' (Prestige 1954)
Miles Davis - Bags' Groove (Prestige 1954)
Miles Davis & The Modern Jazz Giants (Prestige 1954)
Thelonious Monk - Portrait of an Ermite (Vogue 1954)
Horace Silver & the Jazz Messengers (Blue Note 1954)
Julius Watkins - New Faces, New Sounds (Blue Note 1954)
Clifford Brown / Max Roach Quintet (EmArcy 1954-56)
Eddie Bert - Encore (Savoy 1955) (not sure this is really hard bop, but it has J.R. Monterose, so.... and he kills, too!)
Art Blakey - At the Cafe Bohemia (Blue Note 1955)
Hank Mobley Quartet (Blue Note 1955)
Julius Watkins - Julius Watkins Sextet Vol. 2 (Blue Note 1955)
Miles Davis - Round About Midnight (Legacy Edition) (1955/56)
Miles Davis - The Legendary Prestige Quintet Sessions (1955/56) (the quintet w/Trane, Garland, Chambers Philly Joe)
Herbie Nichols: Blue Note Recordings (1955/56)
Kenny Dorham - 'Round About Midnight at the Cafe Bohemia (2CD) (1956)
Johnny Griffin - The Congregation (Blue Note 1956)
John Lewis & Sacha Distel - Afternoon in Paris (Atlantic 1956)
Thelonious Monk - Brilliant Corners (Riverside 1956)
Art Pepper - The Art of Pepper (aka Modern Art - The Complete Aladdin Recordings Vol. 3) (Onyx/Omega/Blue Note 1956)
The Oscar Pettiford Orchestra in Hi-Fi (ABC-Paramount 1956)
Sonny Rollins - Tenor Madness (Prestige 1956)
George Russell - The Jazz Workshop (RCA 1956)
Lucky Thompson: Trios mit Skeeter Best & Oscar Pettiford (ABC 1956)
Milt Jackson & Lucky Thompson: Savoy & Atlantic Sessions (1956/57)
The Great Ray Charles (Atlantic 1957)
Sonny Clark Trio (Blue Note 1957)
Red Garland - Red Garland's Piano (Prestige 1957)
Johnny Griffin - Way Out (Riverside 1957)
John Jenkins / Clifford Jordan / Bobby Timmons - Jenkins / Jordan / Timmons (Prestige 1957)
Yusef Lateef - Jazz for Thinkers (Savoy 1957)
Charles Mingus - East Coasting (Bethlehem 1957)
Charles Mingus - Tijuana Moods (RCA 1957 - Bluebird First Editions 2CD)
Hank Mobley & His All Stars (Blue Note 1957)
Herbie Nichols - Love, Gloom, Cash, Love (Bethlehem 1957)
Red Rodney - 1957 (aka "Fiery", "The Red Arrow") (Signal/Savoy 1957)
Sonny Rollins - Way Out West (Contemporary 1957)
Sonny Rollins - A Night at the Village Vanguard (Complete) (Blue Note 1957)
Jimmy Smith - Groovin' at Smalls' Paradise (Blue Note 1957)
Thelonious Monk: 1957/58 Sessions w/Coltrane (Monk with Coltrane, Monk's Music) (Riverside, Blue Note)
Jimmy Smith - House Party & The Sermon (Complete) (Blue Note 1957/58)
Cannonball Adderley - Somethin' Else (Blue Note 1958)
Art Blakey - Moanin' (Blue Note 1958)
Sonny Clark - Cool Struttin' (Blue Note 1958)
John Coltrane - Soultrane (Prestige 1958)
Miles Davis - Milestones (Columbia 1958)
Hampton Hawes - For Real! (Contemporary 1958)
Ahmad Jamal - But Not for Me (Argo 1958)
Thelonious Monk - Misterioso & Thelonious in Action (Riverside 1958)
James Moody - Last Train from Overbrook (Argo 1958)
"Fathead" - Ray Charles Presents David Newman (Atlantic 1958)
Sonny Rollins - Freedom Suite (Riverside 1958)
Cannonball Adderley Quintet In San Francisco (Riverside 1959)
Art Blakey - At the Jazz Corner of the World (Blue Note 1959)
Eddie Costa - House of Blue Lights (Dot 1959)
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (Columbia 1959)
Bill Evans - Portrait in Jazz (Riverside 1959)
Elmo Hope Trio (Contemporary 1959)
Thad Jones - Motor City Scene (United Artists 1959)
Wynton Kelly - Kelly Great (Vee Jay 1959)
Harold Land - The Fox (Hifijazz 1959)
Shelly Manne - At the Blackhawk (Contemporary 1959)
Charles Mingus - Blues and Roots (Atlantic 1959)
Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um (Columbia 1959)
The Thelonious Monk Orchestra at Town Hall (Riverside 1959)
Thelonious Monk - Thelonious Alone in San Francisco (Riverside 1959)
J.R. Monterose - The Message (Jaro 1959)
Jerome Richardson - Roamin' with Richardson (Prestige 1959)
Max Roach - The Many Sides of Max (Mercury 1959)
The Fantastic Frank Strozier (Vee Jay 1959)
Sun Ra - Jazz in Silhouette (Saturn 1959)
Barney Wilen - Barney - At the Club Saint-Germain (Paris 1959) (RCA 2CD)
Jackie McLean - Jackie's Bag (Blue Note/RVG CD 1959/60)
Ornette Coleman - Beauty Is a Rare Thing: The Complete Atlantic Recordings (Atlantic 1959-61) (okay, this is stretching it a bit...)
Nat Adderley - Work Song (Riverside 1960)
Lou Bennett - Amen! (RCA 1960)
Tina Brooks - True Blue (Blue Note 1960)
Oscar Brown Jr. - Sin and Soul (Columbia 1960)
John Coltrane - Coltrane's Sound (Atlantic 1960)
Hank Crawford - More Soul (Atlantic 1960)
Miles Davis - Live in Stockholm (Dragon 1960 - with Coltrane)
Miles Davis - Live in Paris (Trema/Europe1 1960 - with Coltrane)
Eric Dolphy - Out There (Prestige 1960)
Eric Dolphy - Far Cry (Prestige 1960)
Joe Harriott - Free Form (Jazzland/Redial 1960)
Freddie Hubbard - Open Sesame (Blue Note 1960)
Charles Mingus Presents Mingus Charles Mingus (Candid 1960)
Hank Mobley - Soul Station (Blue Note 1960)
The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery (Riverside 1960)
Art Pepper - Intensity (Contemporary 1960)
Freddie Redd - Shades of Redd (Blue Note 1960)
We Insist! Max Roach's Freedom Now Suite (Candid 1960)
George Russell - Jazz in the Space Age (Decca 1960)
The World of Cecil Taylor (Candid 1960)
René Thomas - Guitar Groove (Jazzland 1960)
Randy Weston - Uhuru Afrika (Roulette 1960)
Joe Harriott - Abstract (Columbia/Redial 1960/61)
Barry Harris - Preminado (Riverside 1960/61)
Gene Ammons - Jug (Prestige 1961)
Donald Byrd - Free Form (Blue Note 1961)
Sonny Clark - Leapin' and Lopin' (Blue Note 1961)
John Coltrane - Olé Coltrane (Atlantic 1961)
John Coltrane - The Complete Africa/Brass Sessions (Impulse 1961)
John Coltrane - The Complete 1961 Village Vanguard Recordings (Impulse)
Eric Dolphy - Live at the Five Spot (Prestige 1961)
Kenny Dorham - Whistle Stop (Blue Note 1961)
Teddy Edwards & Howard McGhee - Together Again! (Contemporary 1961)
Booker Ervin - That's It (Candid 1961)
Art Farmer & Benny Golson - The Jazztet & John Lewis (Argo 1961)
Oliver Nelson - The Blues and the Abstract Truth (Impulse 1961)
Oliver Nelson - Straight Ahead (Prestige 1961)
Mal Waldron - The Quest (Prestige 1961)
Bill Evans - The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings, 1961 (Riverside)
Dexter Gordon - Doin' Alright (Blue Note 1961)
Clifford Jordan - Starting Time (Jazzland 1961)
Yusef Lateef - Eastern Sounds (Prestige/Moodsville 1961)
Jack McDuff - The Honeydripper (Prestige 1961)
Bud Powell - Portrait of Thelonious (Columbia 1961)
Ike Quebec - Blue and Sentimental (Blue Note 1961)
Max Roach - Percussion, Bitter Sweet (Impulse 1961)
George Russell - Ezz-thetics (Riverside 1961)
Bud Shank - New Groove (Pacific Jazz 1961)
Cecil Taylor & Buell Neidlinger - New York City R & B (Candid 1961)
Lucky Thompson - Lord, Lord, Am I Ever Gonna Know (Candid 1961)
Stanley Turrentine - Up at Minton's (Blue Note 1961)
Baby Face Willette - Face to Face (Blue Note 1961)
Grant Green - The Complete Quartets with Sonny Clark (Blue Note 1961/62)
Paul Desmond - The Complete RCA Victor Recordings featuring Jim Hall (1961-65)
Cannonball Adderley - Cannonball in Europe (Capitol 1962)
Gil Cuppini - What's New? (Meazzi/Right Tempo Classics 1962)
Walt Dickerson - To My Queen (Prestige/New Jazz 1962)
Roy Haynes - Out of the Afternoon (Impulse 1962)
Freddie Hubbard - Ready for Freddie (Blue Note 1962)
Sheila Jordan - Portrait of Sheila (Blue Note 1962)
Jackie McLean - Let Freedom Ring (Blue Note 1962)
Thelonious Monk - Monk's Dream (Columbia 1962)
Dizzy Reece - Asia Minor (Prestige/New Jazz 1962)
Curtis Amy - Katanga! (Pacific Jazz 1963)
Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue (Blue Note 1963)
Booker Ervin - The Freedom Book (Prestige 1963)
Art Farmer - "Live" at the Half Note (1963)
Grant Green - Idle Moments (Blue Note 1963)
Herbie Hancock - Inventions & Dimensions (Blue Note 1963)
Andrew Hill - Black Fire (Blue Note 1963)
Ken McIntyre - Way, Way Out (United Artists 1963)
Jackie McLean - Destination Out (Blue Note 1963)
Charles Mingus - The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady (Impulse 1963)
Charles Mingus - Mingus Plays Piano (Impulse 1963)
Lee Morgan - The Sidewinder (Blue Note 1963)
John Patton - Along Came John (Blue Note 1963)
Horace Silver - Song for My Father (Blue Note 1963/64)
Art Blakey - Free for All (Blue Note 1964)
John Coltrane - Crescent (Impulse 1964)
Eric Dolphy - Out to Lunch (Blue Note 1964)
Booker Ervin - The Space Book (Prestige 1964)
Talkin' About Grant Green (Blue Note 1964)
Herbie Hancock - Empyrean Isles (Blue Note 1964)
Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage (Blue Note 1964)
Joe Henderson - Page One (Blue Note 1964)
Andrew Hill - Judgment (Blue Note 1964)
Andrew Hill - Point of Departure (Blue Note 1964)
Yusef Lateef - Live at Pep's / Live at Pep's Vol. 2 (Impulse 1964)
Jackie McLean - Right Now! (Blue Note 1964)
Grachan Moncur III - Some Other Stuff (Blue Note 1964)
J.R. Monterose - In Action (Studio 4 Records/Bainbridge 1964)
Lee Morgan - Search for the New Land (Blue Note 1964)
Don Patterson - Hip Cake Walk (Prestige 1964)
Shirley Scott - Queen of the Organ (Impulse/GRP CD 1964)
Wayne Shorter - Speak No Evil (Blue Note 1964)
John Coltrane - A Love Supreme (Deluxe Edition) (Impulse 1964/65)
Andy Bey & The Bey Sisters - 'Round Midnight (Prestige 1965)
Don Cherry - Complete Communion (Blue Note 1965)
John Coltrane - One Down, One Up (Impulse 1965)
Miles Davis - The Complete Live at the Plugged Nickel 1965 (Sony/Columbia)
Eddie Harris - The In Sound (Atlantic 1965)
Roland Kirk - Rip, Rig and Panic (Mercury 1965)
Krzysztof Komeda - Astigmatic (Polskie Nagrania 1965)
Jackie McLean - Action (Blue Note 1965)
Larry Young - Unity (Blue Note 1965)
Miles Davis - Quintet 1965-'68 (Sony/Columbia) (the "second quintet", right up to "Filles de Kilimanjaro" and "Water Babies")
Bobby Hutcherson - Stick Up (Blue Note 1966)
Don Rendell & Ian Carr - Dusk Fire (EMI Columbia 1966)
Jaki Byard - Sunshine of My Soul (Prestige 1967)
Portrait of Sonny Criss (Prestige 1967)
The Electrifying Eddie Harris (Atlantic 1967)
Bobby Hutcherson - Oblique (Blue Note 1967)
Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra - Live at the Village Vanguard (Solid State 1967)
Roland Kirk - The Inflated Tear (Atlantic 1967)
Prince Lasha & Sonny Simmons - Firebirds (Contemporary 1967)
Pat Martino - El Hombre (Prestige 1967)
Lee Morgan - The Procrastinator (Blue Note 1967)
Sonny Criss - Sonny's Dream (Birth of the New Cool) (Prestige 1968)
Andrew Hill - Dance with Death (Blue Note 1968)
Winston "Mankunku" Ngozi - Yakhal' Inkomo (Gallo 1968)
John Patton - Understanding (Blue Note 1968)
Alan Shorter - Orgasm (Verve 1968)
Charles Tolliver All Stars (aka Paper Man) (Polydor/Black Lion 1968)
John Carter & Bobby Bradford - Seeking (Revelation/Hat 1969)
Kenny Clarke / Francy Boland - Big Band - Volcano / Rue Chaptal: The Complete Live Recordings at Ronnie Scott's, February 28th 1969 (MPS/Rearward 1969)
Charles Earland - Black Talk (Prestige 1969)
Les McCann & Eddie Harris - Swiss Movement (Atlantic 1969)


I have left in some stray non-US sessions that fit the general mood, one could debate if their inclusion makes sense of course ... also a few of those are stretching it a bit, but hey - food for thought.

[escher]

3) the "lyricists" - guess one could debate about them being hard boppers in the first place - Rosenthal compares hard bop, as a style, with "mainstream" (the term coined by Stanley Dance in the fifties, applied to all that went on in between the early beginnings and the bebop "revolution"). In that sense, hard bop was able to allow lots of different styles or variants. This group, he suggests, comprises for instance: Art Farmer, Gigi Gryce, Benny Golson (the Tadd Dameron youth if you want - Jimmy Heath is one of 'em, but he fits group 2 better),

I love those guys (I would add also at least Freddie Redd, Cedar Walton, Charles McPherson,  Kenny Barron, probably John Handy and the same Horace Silver too to this list).
The one I know only very superficially is Jimmy Heath, but seeing him mentioned along Gryce, Golson and Farmer I know that I have to listen to his stuff. Is there any album that you would suggest? And I'm even more curious about single compositions, I'd like to hear some of his best tunes.

[escher]

anyway it must be said that the association of musicians with genres "cool" "bebop" "hard bop" should be taken with a grain of salt because many musicians played very different things in their career. The hardbopper Silver was capable to compose quiet and introverted impressionistic gems like Shirl, while Art Pepper often labeled as a cool musician often played with the intensity of Albert Ayler.
Also, Tadd Dameron was a bebop composer and composed often warm and melodic pieces and the "cool sax player" Stan Getz played also stuff like Parker 51 that reminds of Charlie Parker playing Koko (even if the Parker of the tune played by Getz was not Charlie).

[king ubu]

anyway it must be said that the association of musicians with genres "cool" "bebop" "hard bop" should be taken with a grain of salt because many musicians played very different things in their career. The hardbopper Silver was capable to compose quiet and introverted impressionistic gems like Shirl, while Art Pepper often labeled as a cool musician often played with the intensity of Albert Ayler.
Also, Tadd Dameron was a bebop composer and composed often warm and melodic pieces and the "cool sax player" Stan Getz played also stuff like Parker 51 that reminds of Charlie Parker playing Koko (even if the Parker of the tune played by Getz was not Charlie).

Agreed on all accounts! The Getz/Raney combination produced some really burning music, though it's fire of a different kind (similar to Miles' fire).

And Pepper I did explicitly leave in that list (which is taken from a longer list I once compiled, a few years ago) - he, as well as some other fine West Coast players (Bud Shank, most notably) turned into a hot player more and more, as time went by. By 1957 (the great quartet album with Carl Perkins, Ben Tucker and Chuck Flores!) he was there, latest. A favourite, just for that burning quality, is the aptly titled "Intensity", his last one before he went to jail for a long time.

As for Silver, I hear a decidedly different quality between his music and, say, the music of Farmer or Gryce - Silver's much funkier, earthier. Though of course he was a great lyricist, too (dig those "walking ballads" ... he also wrote a wonderful "Lonely Woman" btw, though Ornette's must be the finest of all tunes bearing that name). But this just shows how Rosenthal's categories are merely an attempt to sort things out but will not stand any extensive scrutiny. Still, I find it a helpful way to get some rough overview.

Regarding Jimmy Heath, somehow his run of Riverside albums leaves me a bit cold mostly. They're full of great bands, with sidemen like Nat Adderley, Clark Terry, Freddie Hubbard, Curtis Fuller, Wynton Kelly, Cedar Walton, Kenny Burrell, Paul Chambers, or his brothers Percy and Albert "Tootie" Heath. Of these early ones, I think my favourite is "On the Trail", where Heath is the lone horn, being accmpanied by a full (4 strong) rhythm section for a change, and what a fine one: Burrell,  Kelly, Chambers and Heath. His somewhat later sides with the "Heath Brothers" band show him in a somewhat hotter, more engaged mood, I find, but I've only heard some of their recordings here and there, don't have any on my shelves. One from the seventies that I like a lot and might be my one favourite Heath album is "Picture of Heath" on Xanadu, which will be reissued in the new Xanadu Remaster series put out by Elemental Music (there's an earlier CD by Prevue/Classic, which I bought many moons ago).

(sorry, sent off my post a bit too early, it's complete now!)

[escher]

Agreed on all accounts! The Getz/Raney combination produced some really burning music, though it's fire of a different kind (similar to Miles' fire).

And Pepper I did explicitly leave in that list (which is taken from a longer list I once compiled, a few years ago) - he, as well as some other fine West Coast players (Bud Shank, most notably) turned into a hot player more and more, as time went by. By 1957 (the great quartet album with Carl Perkins, Ben Tucker and Chuck Flores!) he was there, latest. A favourite, just for that burning quality, is the aptly titled "Intensity", his last one before he went to jail for a long time.

As for Silver, I hear a decidedly different quality between his music and, say, the music of Farmer or Gryce - Silver's much funkier, earthier.

well generally speaking yes, but it's what I was saying, players that we associate with certain things were often able to do different things. Talking of Silver for instance two of his most beloved standards are Peace and Silver's serenade that are not far from what others like Gryce were doing.

[jochanaan]

I made the mistake once of trying to sightread a Charlie Parker tune at an open jam session!  Yikes!

One of my favorite tunes to play, though, is Lee Morgan's Sidewinder.

[Mookalafalas]

my quick personal list of important albums and favourites:

Miles Davis - Walkin' (Prestige 1954)
Miles Davis - Bags' Groove (Prestige 1954)
Miles Davis & The Modern Jazz Giants (Prestige 1954)
Thelonious Monk - Portrait of an Ermite (Vogue 1954)
Horace Silver & the Jazz Messengers (Blue Note 1954)
Julius Watkins - New Faces, New Sounds (Blue Note 1954)
Clifford Brown / Max Roach Quintet (EmArcy 1954-56)
Eddie Bert - Encore (Savoy 1955) (not sure this is really hard bop, but it has J.R. Monterose, so.... and he kills, too!)
Art Blakey - At the Cafe Bohemia (Blue Note 1955)
Hank Mobley Quartet (Blue Note 1955)
Julius Watkins - Julius Watkins Sextet Vol. 2 (Blue Note 1955)
Miles Davis - Round About Midnight (Legacy Edition) (1955/56)
Miles Davis - The Legendary Prestige Quintet Sessions (1955/56) (the quintet w/Trane, Garland, Chambers Philly Joe)
Herbie Nichols: Blue Note Recordings (1955/56)
Kenny Dorham - 'Round About Midnight at the Cafe Bohemia (2CD) (1956)
Johnny Griffin - The Congregation (Blue Note 1956)
John Lewis & Sacha Distel - Afternoon in Paris (Atlantic 1956)
Thelonious Monk - Brilliant Corners (Riverside 1956)
Art Pepper - The Art of Pepper (aka Modern Art - The Complete Aladdin Recordings Vol. 3) (Onyx/Omega/Blue Note 1956)
The Oscar Pettiford Orchestra in Hi-Fi (ABC-Paramount 1956)
Sonny Rollins - Tenor Madness (Prestige 1956)
George Russell - The Jazz Workshop (RCA 1956)
Lucky Thompson: Trios mit Skeeter Best & Oscar Pettiford (ABC 1956)
Milt Jackson & Lucky Thompson: Savoy & Atlantic Sessions (1956/57)
The Great Ray Charles (Atlantic 1957)
Sonny Clark Trio (Blue Note 1957)
Red Garland - Red Garland's Piano (Prestige 1957)
Johnny Griffin - Way Out (Riverside 1957)
John Jenkins / Clifford Jordan / Bobby Timmons - Jenkins / Jordan / Timmons (Prestige 1957)
Yusef Lateef - Jazz for Thinkers (Savoy 1957)
Charles Mingus - East Coasting (Bethlehem 1957)
Charles Mingus - Tijuana Moods (RCA 1957 - Bluebird First Editions 2CD)
Hank Mobley & His All Stars (Blue Note 1957)
Herbie Nichols - Love, Gloom, Cash, Love (Bethlehem 1957)
Red Rodney - 1957 (aka "Fiery", "The Red Arrow") (Signal/Savoy 1957)
Sonny Rollins - Way Out West (Contemporary 1957)
Sonny Rollins - A Night at the Village Vanguard (Complete) (Blue Note 1957)
Jimmy Smith - Groovin' at Smalls' Paradise (Blue Note 1957)
Thelonious Monk: 1957/58 Sessions w/Coltrane (Monk with Coltrane, Monk's Music) (Riverside, Blue Note)
Jimmy Smith - House Party & The Sermon (Complete) (Blue Note 1957/58)
Cannonball Adderley - Somethin' Else (Blue Note 1958)
Art Blakey - Moanin' (Blue Note 1958)
Sonny Clark - Cool Struttin' (Blue Note 1958)
John Coltrane - Soultrane (Prestige 1958)
Miles Davis - Milestones (Columbia 1958)
Hampton Hawes - For Real! (Contemporary 1958)
Ahmad Jamal - But Not for Me (Argo 1958)
Thelonious Monk - Misterioso & Thelonious in Action (Riverside 1958)
James Moody - Last Train from Overbrook (Argo 1958)
"Fathead" - Ray Charles Presents David Newman (Atlantic 1958)
Sonny Rollins - Freedom Suite (Riverside 1958)
Cannonball Adderley Quintet In San Francisco (Riverside 1959)
Art Blakey - At the Jazz Corner of the World (Blue Note 1959)
Eddie Costa - House of Blue Lights (Dot 1959)
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (Columbia 1959)
Bill Evans - Portrait in Jazz (Riverside 1959)
Elmo Hope Trio (Contemporary 1959)
Thad Jones - Motor City Scene (United Artists 1959)
Wynton Kelly - Kelly Great (Vee Jay 1959)
Harold Land - The Fox (Hifijazz 1959)
Shelly Manne - At the Blackhawk (Contemporary 1959)
Charles Mingus - Blues and Roots (Atlantic 1959)
Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um (Columbia 1959)
The Thelonious Monk Orchestra at Town Hall (Riverside 1959)
Thelonious Monk - Thelonious Alone in San Francisco (Riverside 1959)
J.R. Monterose - The Message (Jaro 1959)
Jerome Richardson - Roamin' with Richardson (Prestige 1959)
Max Roach - The Many Sides of Max (Mercury 1959)
The Fantastic Frank Strozier (Vee Jay 1959)
Sun Ra - Jazz in Silhouette (Saturn 1959)
Barney Wilen - Barney - At the Club Saint-Germain (Paris 1959) (RCA 2CD)
Jackie McLean - Jackie's Bag (Blue Note/RVG CD 1959/60)
Ornette Coleman - Beauty Is a Rare Thing: The Complete Atlantic Recordings (Atlantic 1959-61) (okay, this is stretching it a bit...)
Nat Adderley - Work Song (Riverside 1960)
Lou Bennett - Amen! (RCA 1960)
Tina Brooks - True Blue (Blue Note 1960)
Oscar Brown Jr. - Sin and Soul (Columbia 1960)
John Coltrane - Coltrane's Sound (Atlantic 1960)
Hank Crawford - More Soul (Atlantic 1960)
Miles Davis - Live in Stockholm (Dragon 1960 - with Coltrane)
Miles Davis - Live in Paris (Trema/Europe1 1960 - with Coltrane)
Eric Dolphy - Out There (Prestige 1960)
Eric Dolphy - Far Cry (Prestige 1960)
Joe Harriott - Free Form (Jazzland/Redial 1960)
Freddie Hubbard - Open Sesame (Blue Note 1960)
Charles Mingus Presents Mingus Charles Mingus (Candid 1960)
Hank Mobley - Soul Station (Blue Note 1960)
The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery (Riverside 1960)
Art Pepper - Intensity (Contemporary 1960)
Freddie Redd - Shades of Redd (Blue Note 1960)
We Insist! Max Roach's Freedom Now Suite (Candid 1960)
George Russell - Jazz in the Space Age (Decca 1960)
The World of Cecil Taylor (Candid 1960)
René Thomas - Guitar Groove (Jazzland 1960)
Randy Weston - Uhuru Afrika (Roulette 1960)
Joe Harriott - Abstract (Columbia/Redial 1960/61)
Barry Harris - Preminado (Riverside 1960/61)
Gene Ammons - Jug (Prestige 1961)
Donald Byrd - Free Form (Blue Note 1961)
Sonny Clark - Leapin' and Lopin' (Blue Note 1961)
John Coltrane - Olé Coltrane (Atlantic 1961)
John Coltrane - The Complete Africa/Brass Sessions (Impulse 1961)
John Coltrane - The Complete 1961 Village Vanguard Recordings (Impulse)
Eric Dolphy - Live at the Five Spot (Prestige 1961)
Kenny Dorham - Whistle Stop (Blue Note 1961)
Teddy Edwards & Howard McGhee - Together Again! (Contemporary 1961)
Booker Ervin - That's It (Candid 1961)
Art Farmer & Benny Golson - The Jazztet & John Lewis (Argo 1961)
Oliver Nelson - The Blues and the Abstract Truth (Impulse 1961)
Oliver Nelson - Straight Ahead (Prestige 1961)
Mal Waldron - The Quest (Prestige 1961)
Bill Evans - The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings, 1961 (Riverside)
Dexter Gordon - Doin' Alright (Blue Note 1961)
Clifford Jordan - Starting Time (Jazzland 1961)
Yusef Lateef - Eastern Sounds (Prestige/Moodsville 1961)
Jack McDuff - The Honeydripper (Prestige 1961)
Bud Powell - Portrait of Thelonious (Columbia 1961)
Ike Quebec - Blue and Sentimental (Blue Note 1961)
Max Roach - Percussion, Bitter Sweet (Impulse 1961)
George Russell - Ezz-thetics (Riverside 1961)
Bud Shank - New Groove (Pacific Jazz 1961)
Cecil Taylor & Buell Neidlinger - New York City R & B (Candid 1961)
Lucky Thompson - Lord, Lord, Am I Ever Gonna Know (Candid 1961)
Stanley Turrentine - Up at Minton's (Blue Note 1961)
Baby Face Willette - Face to Face (Blue Note 1961)
Grant Green - The Complete Quartets with Sonny Clark (Blue Note 1961/62)
Paul Desmond - The Complete RCA Victor Recordings featuring Jim Hall (1961-65)
Cannonball Adderley - Cannonball in Europe (Capitol 1962)
Gil Cuppini - What's New? (Meazzi/Right Tempo Classics 1962)
Walt Dickerson - To My Queen (Prestige/New Jazz 1962)
Roy Haynes - Out of the Afternoon (Impulse 1962)
Freddie Hubbard - Ready for Freddie (Blue Note 1962)
Sheila Jordan - Portrait of Sheila (Blue Note 1962)
Jackie McLean - Let Freedom Ring (Blue Note 1962)
Thelonious Monk - Monk's Dream (Columbia 1962)
Dizzy Reece - Asia Minor (Prestige/New Jazz 1962)
Curtis Amy - Katanga! (Pacific Jazz 1963)
Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue (Blue Note 1963)
Booker Ervin - The Freedom Book (Prestige 1963)
Art Farmer - "Live" at the Half Note (1963)
Grant Green - Idle Moments (Blue Note 1963)
Herbie Hancock - Inventions & Dimensions (Blue Note 1963)
Andrew Hill - Black Fire (Blue Note 1963)
Ken McIntyre - Way, Way Out (United Artists 1963)
Jackie McLean - Destination Out (Blue Note 1963)
Charles Mingus - The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady (Impulse 1963)
Charles Mingus - Mingus Plays Piano (Impulse 1963)
Lee Morgan - The Sidewinder (Blue Note 1963)
John Patton - Along Came John (Blue Note 1963)
Horace Silver - Song for My Father (Blue Note 1963/64)
Art Blakey - Free for All (Blue Note 1964)
John Coltrane - Crescent (Impulse 1964)
Eric Dolphy - Out to Lunch (Blue Note 1964)
Booker Ervin - The Space Book (Prestige 1964)
Talkin' About Grant Green (Blue Note 1964)
Herbie Hancock - Empyrean Isles (Blue Note 1964)
Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage (Blue Note 1964)
Joe Henderson - Page One (Blue Note 1964)
Andrew Hill - Judgment (Blue Note 1964)
Andrew Hill - Point of Departure (Blue Note 1964)
Yusef Lateef - Live at Pep's / Live at Pep's Vol. 2 (Impulse 1964)
Jackie McLean - Right Now! (Blue Note 1964)
Grachan Moncur III - Some Other Stuff (Blue Note 1964)
J.R. Monterose - In Action (Studio 4 Records/Bainbridge 1964)
Lee Morgan - Search for the New Land (Blue Note 1964)
Don Patterson - Hip Cake Walk (Prestige 1964)
Shirley Scott - Queen of the Organ (Impulse/GRP CD 1964)
Wayne Shorter - Speak No Evil (Blue Note 1964)
John Coltrane - A Love Supreme (Deluxe Edition) (Impulse 1964/65)
Andy Bey & The Bey Sisters - 'Round Midnight (Prestige 1965)
Don Cherry - Complete Communion (Blue Note 1965)
John Coltrane - One Down, One Up (Impulse 1965)
Miles Davis - The Complete Live at the Plugged Nickel 1965 (Sony/Columbia)
Eddie Harris - The In Sound (Atlantic 1965)
Roland Kirk - Rip, Rig and Panic (Mercury 1965)
Krzysztof Komeda - Astigmatic (Polskie Nagrania 1965)
Jackie McLean - Action (Blue Note 1965)
Larry Young - Unity (Blue Note 1965)
Miles Davis - Quintet 1965-'68 (Sony/Columbia) (the "second quintet", right up to "Filles de Kilimanjaro" and "Water Babies")
Bobby Hutcherson - Stick Up (Blue Note 1966)
Don Rendell & Ian Carr - Dusk Fire (EMI Columbia 1966)
Jaki Byard - Sunshine of My Soul (Prestige 1967)
Portrait of Sonny Criss (Prestige 1967)
The Electrifying Eddie Harris (Atlantic 1967)
Bobby Hutcherson - Oblique (Blue Note 1967)
Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra - Live at the Village Vanguard (Solid State 1967)
Roland Kirk - The Inflated Tear (Atlantic 1967)
Prince Lasha & Sonny Simmons - Firebirds (Contemporary 1967)
Pat Martino - El Hombre (Prestige 1967)
Lee Morgan - The Procrastinator (Blue Note 1967)
Sonny Criss - Sonny's Dream (Birth of the New Cool) (Prestige 1968)
Andrew Hill - Dance with Death (Blue Note 1968)
Winston "Mankunku" Ngozi - Yakhal' Inkomo (Gallo 1968)
John Patton - Understanding (Blue Note 1968)
Alan Shorter - Orgasm (Verve 1968)
Charles Tolliver All Stars (aka Paper Man) (Polydor/Black Lion 1968)
John Carter & Bobby Bradford - Seeking (Revelation/Hat 1969)
Kenny Clarke / Francy Boland - Big Band - Volcano / Rue Chaptal: The Complete Live Recordings at Ronnie Scott's, February 28th 1969 (MPS/Rearward 1969)
Charles Earland - Black Talk (Prestige 1969)
Les McCann & Eddie Harris - Swiss Movement (Atlantic 1969)


I have left in some stray non-US sessions that fit the general mood, one could debate if their inclusion makes sense of course ... also a few of those are stretching it a bit, but hey - food for thought.

Love the list! A ton of my faves, too.  I'm a bit more conservative, perhaps.  You don't like Sonny Stitt? Or did you leave him out by accident? 

[Brian]

Love the list! A ton of my faves, too.  I'm a bit more conservative, perhaps.  You don't like Sonny Stitt? Or did you leave him out by accident?

If you don't have the 2CD set "Giants of Jazz Live" from I think 1971, with Sonny Stitt, Dizzy Gillespie, Kai Winding, Thelonious Monk, Al McKibbon, and Art Blakey, run don't walk. What Stitt does on the second disc is, back-to-back, 2 of my top 10 favorite jazz solos of all time.

EDIT:

[asin]B000DZIGGW[/asin]

[king ubu]

Re: Stiit - yeah, sure!

The Prestige dates with Bud Powell as well as the session with J.J. Johnson ... some of the Roost albums, those Argos  (a Freshsound twofer), some organ dates (the fiery mid/late 60s trio with Patterson/James but plenty of other earlier organ dates, too) ... and maybe my very favourites: the two Cobblestone albums from the seventies with Barry Harris!

[SKYIO]

Wow King Abu. That is the best list I have ever seen in my life. Really this has made my life so much more pleasant haha!!

[king ubu]

thanks for the feedback - always love it when my enthusiasm proves infectuous 

[Pap]

For Bebob this is a good place to start;

For hard bob this is my favorite;

[king ubu]

Actually, for me, "Giant Steps" didn't really work as an entry point. Took me quite a while to discover it's beauty. Some of his Prestige albums ("Soultrane", "Settin' the Pace", "Traneing In") and other Altantics ("Coltrane Jazz" - pretty underrated, that one!) worked much better, as well as some of the mellower/earlier Impulses ("Coltrane" - the Prestige counterpart is very much worth hearing, too! - "Ballads", "Ellington & Coltrane").

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Dial and Savoy masters are included in the box. Plus Bud Powell vol. 3. Of course vols 1 and 2 are great too.