Countdown to Resurrection: October 19, 2015 Canadian Federal Election

[Brahmsian]

Harperville?

Orange Crush?

Trudeau Mania - Part Deux?

Go Green or go Home?

  Ken?

Others?

[Ken B]

Harperville?

Orange Crush?

Trudeau Mania - Part Deux?

Go Green or go Home?

  Ken?

Others?

I have paid little attention. I am a long time Harper guy. I supported him even when he seemed toast, and before he became leader. So my default is to hope Harper wins. But enough people I respect have told about enough corruption -- including the latest disgusting wave of campaign goodies -- that I can't work up any enthusiasm.

I'm against Trudeau Junior very strongly, but I like a number of individual grits, such as the one in my home town. I could vote for a good local grit easily enough. Couldn't see myself supporting the NDP ever.

Might be time for a minority conservative government in other words.

Incidentally I hear every time I go back about how ridiculous it is that the USA can't scare up any candidates but Bushes or Clintons. Well, neither is the nominee yet, but we already have a Trudeau. Glass houses.

[Brahmsian]

I have paid little attention. I am a long time Harper guy. I supported him even when he seemed toast, and before he became leader. So my default is to hope Harper wins. But enough people I respect have told about enough corruption -- including the latest disgusting wave of campaign goodies -- that I can't work up any enthusiasm.

I'm against Trudeau Junior very strongly, but I like a number of individual grits, such as the one in my home town. I could vote for a good local grit easily enough. Couldn't see myself supporting the NDP ever.

Might be time for a minority conservative government in other words.

Incidentally I hear every time I go back about how ridiculous it is that the USA can't scare up any candidates but Bushes or Clintons. Well, neither is the nominee yet, but we already have a Trudeau. Glass houses.

Ken, I really do believe it will be a minority government.  It really is a toss up as to what will happen, but I doubt either the Conservatives or New Democrats will pull off a majority.  And certainly not the Liberals. 

[Ken B]

Harperville?

Orange Crush?

Trudeau Mania - Part Deux?

Go Green or go Home?

  Ken?

Others?

Ken, I really do believe it will be a minority government.  It really is a toss up as to what will happen, but I doubt either the Conservatives or New Democrats will pull off a majority.  And certainly not the Liberals. 

Apparently the grit in Guelph, Valeriote, is not running this time. Too bad. I'd vote for him. He crossed party lines to criticize the "human rights" tribunal kangaroo courts, and did a few other good things. One of the things that distinguishes Canadian politics is people are willing to vote for good local members aside from party affiliation. He was enormously popular and I see the grits over 50% in that riding.

[Brian]

Why wouldn't the NDP and Liberals create a coalition government to get rid of Harper?

[Ken B]

Why wouldn't the NDP and Liberals create a coalition government to get rid of Harper?

Entirely possible. Or any pairing! The rules are unwritten. But if Harper wins the plurality then he will get the first chance to form a government. If he loses a vote of confidence one of three things can happen
1. election
2. another party member tries to form a government (or that party joins someone else)
3 another party tries without the plurality party

Canadian precedent is pretty clear that 1 and 2 are what normally happens. I don't know off the top of my head of a post-confederation example of 3 but maybe it happened in pre-Confederation Canada, when Brown either won or lost a confidence vote. (It's been a long time!) Those, if they happened are considered precedents (as is pre 1867 Westminster, but not post 1867 Westminster!)

Confused yet?

In short: plurality matters. I hope that will be respected either way.

[Mirror Image]

Canada has a government? Who would have thunk it?

In all seriousness, I have several Canadian friends (besides the ones that frequent this forum) and it's almost unanimous that they think Harper is nothing in the world but another Bush or Cheney. Loads of corruption. What do you guys make of it? Since I know next to nothing about Canadian politics, I wonder if Harper is such a horrible Prime Minister, then why is he still in office?

[Ken B]

Canada has a government? Who would have thunk it?

In all seriousness, I have several Canadian friends (besides the ones that frequent this forum) and it's almost unanimous that they think Harper is nothing in the world but another Bush or Cheney. Loads of corruption. What do you guys make of it? Since I know next to nothing about Canadian politics, I wonder if Harper is such a horrible Prime Minister, then why is he still in office?

Because he isn't.

People are looking for outstanding examples of corrupt politicians, and they pick Bush or Cheney? That's pretty odd, when you've got Hillary as the front runner for one party. it's like I'm trying to think of an outstanding example of a loudmouth braggart politician and choosing Ed Koch rather than Donald Trump.

[Mirror Image]

Because he isn't.

People are looking for outstanding examples of corrupt politicians, and they pick Bush or Cheney? That's pretty odd, when you've got Hillary as the front runner for one party. it's like I'm trying to think of an outstanding example of a loudmouth braggart politician and choosing Ed Koch rather than Donald Trump.

Like I said, I know next to nothing about Stephen Harper other than I know he was raised in Toronto, Ontario. I did remember reading this and I think I glanced over his biography at some point. Maybe this is a better question: what has Harper done to better Canada?

[Ken B]

Like I said, I know next to nothing about Stephen Harper other than I know he was raised in Toronto, Ontario. I did remember reading this and I think I glanced over his biography at some point. Maybe this is a better question: what has Harper done to better Canada?

High standard. Anyway he ended the kangaroo censorship courts more or less, has been resolutely moral and prudent in foreign policy, and managed the economy fairly well. Under his watch the BQ was destroyed. He has more or less made the right accept, reluctantly, but accept gay marriage and has rationalized immigration policies.

[Ken B]

Auschwitz was a concentration camp? Who knew? Not so very surprising in an NDP candidate. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/24/the-candidate-who-didn-t-know-what-auschwitz-was.html

The NDP has been in power in various provinces at various times, and has sometimes been quite a fiscally responsible one. But Ontario had one (disastrous), led by Bob Rae. Rae's a very smart and likable guy, with an honesty rare in politicians. He wrote a good article "Walking away from the NDP" which I recommend to anyone who thinks my comment above is too harsh.

[Ken B]

This is for Karl.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/424619/democrats-wake-how-bad-liar-hillary-john-fund

[Brian]

The NDP has been in power in various provinces at various times, and has sometimes been quite a fiscally responsible one. But Ontario had one (disastrous), led by Bob Rae. Rae's a very smart and likable guy, with an honesty rare in politicians. He wrote a good article "Walking away from the NDP" which I recommend to anyone who thinks my comment above is too harsh.

Is Bob Rae the guy who went skinny-dipping with Rick Mercer?

[Ken B]

Is Bob Rae the guy who went skinny-dipping with Rick Mercer?

Yes.

Rae has a good sense of humour, and can laugh at himself. As I said his own government was disastrous. He more or less admitted this years later. His win was a shock upset, and he said later they were not prepared. Approximate quote: "We were like a puppy dog who chases a car. When he caught it he didn't know what to do."
Not many politicians you'll hear something like that from!

[Brian]

Like I said, I know next to nothing about Stephen Harper other than I know he was raised in Toronto, Ontario. I did remember reading this and I think I glanced over his biography at some point. Maybe this is a better question: what has Harper done to better Canada?

The flip side of what Ken said is that Harper's political style is undeniably American, both more polarizing and more "corporate" than what came before. (Corporate not in the sense of being paid for by corporations, but in the sense of how campaigns and parties operate, and how they control their message, etc.) If you get past the ridiculous, stupid Putin comparison at the start, this article is a good catalog of Harper's track record.

quoting:
It's difficult to dispute that Mr Harper has a list of accomplishments that would make an American Republican blush. He discontinued a national long-gun registry, boosted mandatory criminal sentences and increased funding for prison construction. He's cut funding to government-funded research into climate change, pulled Canada out of the Kyoto Protocol agreement to control greenhouse gasses and - his critics allege - singled out environmentalist groups for tax audits. He pushed stricter voter identification rules and cut funding to government election outreach efforts.


Brian again - something I dislike Harper for is how he capitalized on the recent shooting incident at the capital to run a George-Bush-in-2004 "terrorism is our highest priority" scare campaign.

Yes.

Rae has a good sense of humour, and can laugh at himself. As I said his own government was disastrous. He more or less admitted this years later. His win was a shock upset, and he said later they were not prepared. Approximate quote: "We were like a puppy dog who chases a car. When he caught it he didn't know what to do."
Not many politicians you'll hear something like that from!

Something tells me Jeremy Corbyn will not have that level of candor...

[Ken B]

Most Canadian politicians are pretty decent folks over all, with some humour. (Partisans will deny this of course: the other side is all rotten). There are some exceptions, including the convicted jewel thief, but over all not so bad. But Bob Rae stands out I think.

[Brian]

Most Canadian politicians are pretty decent folks over all, with some humour. (Partisans will deny this of course: the other side is all rotten). There are some exceptions, including the convicted jewel thief, but over all not so bad. But Bob Rae stands out I think.

I definitely remember this from watching CBC when I lived in Detroit 2001-2004 - Harper comes across as about as human and relatable as Hillary Clinton, but even including him, 90% of Canadian politicians seemed like they would be nice neighbors.

The other 10% is Rob Ford.

[kishnevi]

Bump. Still scheduled for Monday, I assume.

[Brian]

Congratulations, Canada!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brahmsian]

Congratulations, Canada!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Indeed!    Very happy that Stephen Harper got the heave ho.