Verdi: Aida

[knight66]

No, just a conjunction of opinions. I love the Solti, but can hear the faults in it. He really does rush the fences as loudly as possible. I find his Nile Scene very exciting and I do really love those voices.

Mike

[Marsch MacFiercesome]

You are a rotten lot you know.



Mike

I can't help it that my perfection makes other people feel less than perfect.

Give a blonde a break, Mike.



<Exeunt Marsch to the Triumphal March music.>

[Marsch MacFiercesome]

No, just a conjunction of opinions. I love the Solti, but can hear the faults in it. He really does rush the fences as loudly as possible. I find his Nile Scene very exciting and I do really love those voices.

Mike

I like the voices on the Solti too; and I like Solti's ebullient, effusive, and warm Hungarian personality as well.

But its the rushed and indelicate non-finessings of his conducting that I don't particularly care for. 

[Marsch MacFiercesome]

Well I love the Solti and generally dislike the sound of Callas's voice (though no denying the greatness of the artist). So there!   
PS: I feel like I'm in the unpopular opinions thread! 

I can't fault you for not liking Callas' voice- or even thinking that its harsh, shrill, or hollow at times- I know I didn't like Callas for a long time; or rather I 'thought' that I didn't- that is to say, until I really ' ' listened ' ' to how compellingly she colored, shaded, and inflected every dramatic nuance to what she sang.

- Then it clicked. -

Now I think she's the most exciting singer I've ever heard in my life.

When I first heard her '58 Covent Garden Traviata it reduced me to quivering rubble in the SECOND act- not the third; and when I heard her '53 Florence Medea, '52 Lady Macbeth, and Armida- I knew that I had found my Dramatic Diva not just of the Age- but of Many Ages. I just went out and bought 'everything' of hers.

I would trade the entire œuvres of the exquisitely-sung but pleasantly-boring Sutherlands, Kiris, Flemings, and Tebaldis for just one vintage Callas recording. . .

Anyway, I know how you feel. I've been on both sides of the fence.

I just wanted to point out that there's two sides to it when you may think that there is only one.

[betterthanfine]

How the heck is Karajan's EMI Aida out of print?! Or am I just not searching hard enough?

[Marsch MacFiercesome]

How the heck is Karajan's EMI Aida out of print?! Or am I just not searching hard enough?

http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Carreras-Cappuccilli-Raimondi-Ricciarelli/dp/B000002SDW/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1448400740&sr=1-1&keywords=aida+karajan+emi

You just have eyes wide shut- like I do sometimes. . . well, 'more than sometimes.'

[betterthanfine]

Thanks for that, but all of those are used copies and the new ones are fairly pricey. It just surprises me to see that there are Karajan recordings that haven't been reissued to death, especially with singers such as Freni, Baltsa and Carreras in the cast.

[knight66]

I buy second hand if I can. I have only had, I think, two problems in many years. I see some that are being shipped from sellers in Europe on Amazon for about £5 and described as 'very good'. That usualy means virtually like new. I buy a lot from Zoverstocks and have never had a problem with them.

Mike

[knight66]

That Karajan Aida is in the bumper Karajan opera box on EMI. I had a look to see whether that was going for a bargain rate, you might have been interested. But I could have a holiday on the second-hand rate and buy a car with the new prices suggested.

Mike

[Tsaraslondon]

I buy second hand if I can. I have only had, I think, two problems in many years. I see some that are being shipped from sellers in Europe on Amazon for about £5 and described as 'very good'. That usualy means virtually like new. I buy a lot from Zoverstocks and have never had a problem with them.

Mike

I also buy  second hand  quite a lot from Amazon marketplace. Only once or twice have I had a problem with a CD, and there was no problem getting a refund, the seller often telling me just to ditch the CD, whilst they issued a full refund (including postage). There should be no fear and if something is listed as "very good" or "as new", then it generally is. In fact I often prefer to look for the original plush CD issue to the re-issue, which often comes without libretto or translation.

[Marsch MacFiercesome]

I also buy  second hand  quite a lot from Amazon marketplace. Only once or twice have I had a problem with a CD, and there was no problem getting a refund, the seller often telling me just to ditch the CD, whilst they issued a full refund (including postage). There should be no fear and if something is listed as "very good" or "as new", then it generally is. In fact I often prefer to look for the original plush CD issue to the re-issue, which often comes without libretto or translation.

I only have the occasional problem of being sent the wrong cd; or even a damaged one from all of the myriad vendors that I buy from at Amazon Marketplace. (Cracked jewel boxes are a different matter.)

I did however once order the SRO incarnation of the Callas/Karajan La Scala Lucia- and the vendor sent me the Callas/Del Monaco/Mexico City Lucia instead.

I 'almost' went into meltdown- but I gave the vendor the benefit of the doubt first and explained what happened.

The vendor was profusely apologetic, told me to keep the Mexico Lucia, and that he'd immediately send me the Karajan/La Scala one.

- So I suppose 'sunshine and light' when dealing with vendors works better than 'full meltdown in Medea-mode.'

Ha.  Ha.  Ha.  Ha.   

[mc ukrneal]

I rarely have issues with used discs. The problem is usually with the documentation and it not being in as good a shape as I thought it would be. I usually don't care with other genres, but for opera, I like to go through the libretto and booklets. So for opera, I must admit to rarely buying used ones anymore unless it is like new. This is especially true with Opera Rara releases, where part of the joy is often in the documentation and storage.

[betterthanfine]

I rarely have issues with used discs. The problem is usually with the documentation and it not being in as good a shape as I thought it would be. I usually don't care with other genres, but for opera, I like to go through the libretto and booklets. So for opera, I must admit to rarely buying used ones anymore unless it is like new. This is especially true with Opera Rara releases, where part of the joy is often in the documentation and storage.

I'm the same. I do often buy used products, but rarely online. There's a few book stores around where I live that offer used classical CDs, and I love to go in there and browse, often finding things I didn't know I needed had been looking for. One of the perks is that you can immediately check the state of the product.

[zamyrabyrd]

Well I love the Solti and generally dislike the sound of Callas's voice (though no denying the greatness of the artist). So there!   
PS: I feel like I'm in the unpopular opinions thread! 

This may be unpopular too, but Freni, in my opinion, has a voice too light for Aida.

ZB

[Marsch MacFiercesome]

This may be unpopular too, but Freni, in my opinion, has a voice too light for Aida.

ZB

I feel the same way: Freni has a 'beautiful' voice, but she doesn't have the volume to make a 'fierce' Aida.

[ritter]

I feel the same way: Freni has a 'beautiful' voice, but she doesn't have the volume to make a 'fierce' Aida.

Well, and then there was that quip about Carreras (a singer I greatly admire) as Radamès: "Nemorino nell'Egitto"...

[knight66]

I was in chorus for a Verdi Aida with Carreras. At the orchestral rehearsal he made several slip-ups. After the third wrong entry, Abbado looked at him full on and Carreras was foolish enough to then blame a member of the orchestra who had dropped a pencil. Thereafter, every time he opened his mouth Abbado was plagued by the string sections dropping pencils.

It reminded me of his rather flustered rehearsals for the recording of West Side Story. On film Bernstein gets more than testy with him.

Mike

[Marsch MacFiercesome]

Well, and then there was that quip about Carreras (a singer I greatly admire) as Radamès: "Nemorino nell'Egitto"...

^ "Nemorino nell-Egitto"- I'M DY-ING!!! Ha.  Ha.  Ha.  Ha.  Ha. Totally great. My kind of humor all the way.

'The Little Man who tries to project a big voice.'

I know of one- only he lives in New Zealand.

But that's another dish for another day.

[kishnevi]

Well I gave in to the marketing and bought this new set. I'm not sure why. Aida isn't even my favourite Verdi opera, and yet I now have five recordings of it.

Presentation of this new studio recording (a rarity in itself these days) harks back to the old days. A nice hard back book, acts I and II given a CD each, with the last two acts on the final CD. Full text, translations and notes in three languages are included, with copious photos of the sessions, and all at an introductory bargain price. Warner have put a lot of faith in the enterprise, and I hope it will be a success, if only to precipitate more new studio recordings of opera.

So what of the performance? Well, to my mind, the two stars are Kaufmann and Pappano. Kaufmann fulfills all the requirements for strong heroic tone and lyrical poetry. The ending of Celeste Aida is one of the best I've heard, hitting the top Bb mezzoforte, then making a diminuendo to a truly ppp morendo close. He is every inch the noble warrior, the tender lover, and the tormented man torn between the two. It is a considerable achievement and one of the best Radames we have had on disc.

Pappano's shaping of the score is excellent and in the best Italian tradition, less self conscious than Karajan I, less apt to push the orchestra into the foreground than Karajan II and far preferable to the bombastic Solti. His balancing of the score's public and private elements is just about perfect, and his Santa Cecilia orchestra play brilliantly for him. The sound too is very good, achieving an excellent balance between orchestra and singers, who are never drowned out as they are in Karajan II.

The rest have all I think been bettered elsewhere. Best of them is Ludovic Tezier's Amonasro, a baritone with a good solid centre to his tone, and an almost Gobbi-like grasp of the role's dramatic demands. I have heard much firmer basses in the roles of Ramfis and the King than Erwin Schrott and Marco Spotti and neither of them makes much of an impression.

Of the two women, Ekaterina Semenchuk has all the notes and power for Amneris, just missing out on a really individual response to the words. I liked her quite a lot, though not as much as my favourite, Baltsa. As for Harteros, I have equivocal feelings. There are times when the role taxes her to the limit, and the ascent to top C in O patria mia is hard won, the final note thin, acrid and not quite in tune. She is easily outclassed by Caballe here. However she uses the words wonderfully well, and is thoroughly inside the role. My problem is that, though more responsive to the text than, say, Price or Tebadi, I find the voice itself somewhat anonymous. In some ways she reminds me of Freni, also a singer on the light side, and who also sings well off the words, but Freni makes the pleasanter, more individual sound.

So maybe not the last word in Aida recordings. I won't be throwing away Karajan II and certainly not Callas under Serafin (also now on Warner) or in any of the live recordings I have, but I will certainly be returning to it, especially for the contributions of Kaufmann and Pappano.

Solti, as you know, Mike, I can't take in Verdi, and, for me, he ruins the set with Price and Vickers. I'm not all that fond of Gorr's Amneris either, which, to my ears, sounds far too matronly. Muti is a safe bet, with Caballe giving one of her best performances on disc, and I rather like Karajan's second take on the opera, particularly Baltsa's young princess, but retain my affection for Callas and Gobbi with Serafin. I'm not sure Aida was ever a Callas role, even when she was hurling out a top Eb of gargantuan proportions in the Triumphal Scene in Mexico, but she makes more of the character than any, and the Nile Scene with her and Gobbi is simply tremendous.

My copy of the Pappano Aida arrived today, and I am listening to it now....currently  in the middle of Act 3.  Greg's comments seem very accurate to me.

[Tsaraslondon]

This may be unpopular too, but Freni, in my opinion, has a voice too light for Aida.

ZB

I actually agree with you, but, intelligent singer as she is, she copes with it pretty well, better than Harteros on the new Pappano set, who I also think is a little too light for the role. Harteros makes an affecting heroine, without ever quite convincing she has the right size voice for the role. But where are the Ponselles, the Tebaldis, the Prices today? I'm not sure I can think of anyone.