The Great American Symphony

[Simula]

My apology if I came off as curmedgeonly (I am a qualified card-carrying member of that club, though, lol.)
That said, there is a wide latitude of what / whose work is considered obscure as per any individuals perception.

Nope, I don't think you came across this way. No harm done. I will be exploring more of the works of Mennin. LOTS of music so little time.

[Monsieur Croche]

Nope, I don't think you came across this way. No harm done. I will be exploring more of the works of Mennin.

Thanks for that.

LOTS of music so little time.

Aint' that just too true!?!

[Simula]

"It is the total artistic statement that is of paramount importance, not the working process; it is what the music truly is, not what it is not or would like to be, that is of genuine value. With the passage of time, all that really counts is the final musical result. To the committed composer, all other matters are peripheral." Peter Mennin

" Mr. Mennin presided over Juilliard during its tremendous growth in prestige during the 1960's and 70's... One of his principal gifts to Juilliard was the strengthening of its faculty. He added Elliott Carter, Roger Sessions and Luciano Berio to the composition staff, even though the music of these men spoke a very different language from his own." New York Times Obituaries, Bernard Holland, June 18, 1983

[Simula]

Gosh darn is there no love for Coates at all?!?!

I am listening to Coate's Symphony No.15.   Interesting....

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

I am listening to Coate's Symphony No.15.   Interesting....

14 is great too!!

[Karl Henning]

What single Coates work would you recommend, if you could only recommend one?

(No response with more than one work will be considered. PICK ONE.)



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[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

What single Coates work would you recommend, if you could only recommend one?

(No response with more than one work will be considered. PICK ONE.)



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

O shit ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

String Quartet no. 5

[Karl Henning]

O shit ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

String Quartet no. 5

Knew you could do it!

[Heck148]

I am listening to Mennin No. 7. I am certainly enjoying, but is there a better recording?

If you are listening to Martinon/Chicago, then no there is not a better recording...these guys just eat it up...

[Heck148]

Was listening to the Bernstein Sony William Schuman 3rd earlier.  I have to admit that I don't like this recording.  Perhaps I just don't like the music, but I also find the this Bernstein recording too string heavy and a bit crude.

Bernstein I, string heavy?? you're kidding?? the brass and percussion are just knocking it out of the park - really heavy metal stuff, so is Slatkin/CSO - neither of them are string heavy, tho the string sections can certainly handle the difficult parts...haven't heard Schwarz/Seattle - I don't know if they really have the first-rate brass/WWs/Perc to match up with NYPO or CSO...I have alot of Schwarz/Seattle American series - not bad, and in some cases, very good - but for Schuman 3, I don't know if they'd be up to the formidable competition.

[Heck148]

I disagree;  from the Pettersson I have heard, my experience is the reverse (i.e., I find Mennin by far the more powerful and original composer).

I agree...Mennin, for me, is more interesting.

[Heck148]

Listened to the Mennin 7 in the Martinon/Chicago box yesterday.  Fabulous recording.

[asin]B00PCCWXPG[/asin]

yup - great set, for sure, so many treasures....Nielsen, Bartok, Hindemith, Varese; the Ravel stuff is totally splendid....right up there with Reiner's...

[Simula]

Reporting back on Coates. I don't know what to say, how am I to tell if this is, in fact, the kind of music that will grow on me, it might? My negative criticism is that the glissandos thing seems a bit gimmicky to me, and she seems to do it all the time. However, she is interesting enough, and unique enough, that I will give her several more listens.

[Mirror Image]

Gosh darn is there no love for Coates at all?!?!

Why does this surprise you? I remember hearing a Coates piece way back when (one of her symphonies I believe) and thinking "When will it be over?" I mean there was nothing in the piece I heard that had me allured and, towards the end of the work, thankful I listened.

[Mirror Image]

I think Ives, Copland, Schuman, Piston, Diamond...have written symphonies that are certainly candidates for "The Great American Symphony." I didn't mention Harris as he comes across as too preachy and declamatory to me.

[Heck148]

I think Ives, Copland, Schuman, Piston, Diamond...have written symphonies that are certainly candidates for "The Great American Symphony." I didn't mention Harris as he comes across as too preachy and declamatory to me.

Harris #3 is very good....the others...uuhhhh???...I feel similarly about Piston - too "academic"..too much textbook...

I would add Mennin to your list, tho, and Hanson - in Syms 1 and 3...don't know that they are the "greatest", but they're very good...

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Why does this surprise you? I remember hearing a Coates piece way back when (one of her symphonies I believe) and thinking "When will it be over?" I mean there was nothing in the piece I heard that had me allured and, towards the end of the work, thankful I listened.

Well she seems to be a fairly popular composer  based on what I've read people post on the internet so I was just very surprised not to even see her mentioned once on this thread.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Well she seems to be a fairly popular composer  based on what I've read people post on the internet so I was just very surprised not to even see her mentioned once on this thread.

Popular??? Heck no ! She is a woman who is fairly prolific and who wrote in some fairly traditional genres like string quartet and symphony. If she is a man they would have banished her to obscurity already. I think her music is pretty dreadful, as in dreadfully dull.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Ok wow well maybe she is just not very popular at all around this part of the internet

[Monsieur Croche]

Ok wow well maybe she is just not very popular at all around this part of the internet

I would be really surprised if her works were popular anywhere but among a very small sub-set of listeners.
So much of her music moves at glacially slow tempi, and I have to agree the glissandi thingie gets to be a mere, yet increasingly annoying, bit of shtick which just gets exponentially more annoying the more continually it is deployed and relied upon. I think she relies upon it soooo heavily that much of it ends up as seeming wholly gratuitous.

There is always a tiny subset of those who zealously love the contemporary rep, but I'm speaking of that tiny (thank goodness they are few) group who are also zealously reactionary in rather indiscriminately liking any and all contemporary as a reaction against all the older rep. If it is new, and 'other enough' apart from the older music, no matter how great, slight or bad it is, they will embrace it.

Coates for me is also pretty antithetical to my taste in that it seems to be 'drawing with sound' vs. making shapes and structures with sound -- if that makes any kind of sense to you -- maybe a better analogy would be lines on flat paper vs. sculpture; somewhat conflicting with that, maybe, is I much prefer the painterly or drawing approach vs. the literary - illustrative intent.

Seriously, listening again to symphony no 15, the glissandi (I suppose thought to generate both instability and tension) fail massively and are so overused in almost all of her work that they seem to be her main -- and only -- trick, and shtick. Take away all the effects and glissandi in the strings, and you're left with, imo, very little substance with about just as little interest -- in that regard one could more rightly cry "Emperor's New Clothes" as a readier criticism more apposite of Coates than the same shot so consistently taken at Philip Glass.