What would Holst's Planets sound like if written now?

[relm1]

Gustav Holst's "The Planets" is one of my all time favorite large scale orchestral works.  Imagine how monumental it must have sounded during its premiere performance in 1920.  Even today, it sounds fresh and incredibly original.  It is so full of stylistic variety since each planet/movement captures a completely different mood, orchestrational technique, intensity, color, etc.  Those who listen through Holst's oeuvre in search of something similar will be surprised that nothing quite sounds like it with its perfect balance of drama, intensity, otherworldly magic, mythology, and creative lyricism. 

My question...if you could imagine a modern version of Holst's masterpiece, what might it sound like and who do you think would be capable of conjuring something like this undying work for a new age? 

[kishnevi]

First thought:
Something with heavy use of electronic and computer sound, novel instruments, and perhaps a harmonic structure which seeks to emulate the intervals of the planetary orbits.

If the focus was on the mythic and astrological character of the planets, as was the case with Holst's own version, probably something more standard.


In either case I suspect a chamber ensemble would be used, not a full orchestra.

[bhodges]

First thought:
Something with heavy use of electronic and computer sound, novel instruments, and perhaps a harmonic structure which seeks to emulate the intervals of the planetary orbits.

This is interesting since not two weeks ago I heard The Planets for the first time in decades, and had forgotten how astonishing Holst's orchestration is.  I have been thinking about the piece for days.

Agree that electronics might figure prominently, and/or use of computers to process what is being produced - in any case, a 21st-century palette, including the vast array of percussion instruments available. I could imagine more vocal parts, not just women's chorus - perhaps one or two movements with a soloist and orchestra.

And as far as "who," perhaps get Colin Matthews, who did the "Pluto" movement in 2000, to do the whole suite! Or maybe Mason Bates, Kaija Saariaho, or perhaps a bunch of different composers, each doing one movement. It's difficult to imagine, since the Holst is very much of its time and place.

--Bruce

[some guy]

The Holst is very much of its time and place.

Indeed.

My first thought on seeing this thread.

Analogues is the best you'll get. And none of them will be close in sound to what you get from Holst. So unsatisfaction all round, eh?

But oh well. Are there other big, ambitious works with lots of variety that have been written in the past 100 years more or less?

Yes.

Xenakis' Persepolis sprang to mind.

Parmegiani's La Creation du Monde and De Natura Sonorum also.

So much, really. What about LICHT for another example? That's pretty big and various.

[North Star]

So much, really. What about LICHT for another example? That's pretty big and various.

I first read that as vacuous. . .

[some guy]

 

I don't think it is, but I do think that "vacuous" is funnier than "various."

[Mirror Image]

I imagine a contemporary Planets being composed for chamber orchestra and electronics.

[PerfectWagnerite]

It would sound just as kitsch, bloated, pompous and ridiculous as when it was first written.

[(poco) Sforzando]

It would sound just as kitsch, blaoted, pompous and ridiculous as when it was first written.

That, and it would include Pluto as an optional final movement depending on what view of astronomy is prevalent at the time.

[relm1]

As was a trend at that time, there was an interest in astrology since Holst used a loose and broad characterization of the astrological impression of the planets as his source, it is almost like the planets have a musical impression of their character.  From his own comments for the premiere performance:  "If any guide to the music is required the subtitle to each piece will be found sufficient, especially if it be used in a broad sense. For instance, Jupiter brings jollity in the ordinary sense, and also the more ceremonial type of rejoicing associated with religions or national festivities. Saturn brings not only physical decay, but also a vision of fulfillment. Mercury is the symbol of mind."

To me, if this same approach were used in a modern sense it would be following social trends of our times mixed with state of the art virtuosic orchestrational approaches, some combination of metaphysics and mythology. 

Therefore, my composer of choice of who should score a modern version is Thomas Ades.  Here is why.   He has a traditional orchestral sound that is very much influenced by modernism.  Remember, "The Planets" was unique in Holst's oeuvre.  It was not his native style but informed his diverse approach.  Since Ades has shown modernistic inventiveness and great versatility with his large scale orchestral works in works like "Asyla" and yet also shown his conservative side in works such as the cantata "Brahms" he also shown his mythological and astrological allusions in "Polaris", "Tevot", and "In Seven Days". 

This makes me believe that Ades is the ideal successor to create a modern day Planets.  I only realized this after this thread.

Let's raise a million dollars and make this happen.  Give him an hour, a massive orchestra, organ, electro-acoustics, vocal forces, whatever, and just imagine the possibilities.  Perhaps a hundred years later their will be 100 recordings of a masterwork that people imagine what next.

[Mirror Image]

It would sound just as kitsch, bloated, pompous and ridiculous as when it was first written.

Oh man, that's harsh! I happen to love the work. I mean do I listen to it very often? No, but it's a masterly work IMHO and very much deserves it's popularity.

[Brian]

Although I (like Bruce) first thought of Mason Bates, a possibility not yet explored in this thread is that the 21st century "Planets" might have been written by someone like Howard Shore, John Williams, or Alexandre Desplat, in cheesy cinematic style.

[Christo]

Gustav Holst's "The Planets" is one of my all time favorite large scale orchestral works.  Imagine how monumental it must have sounded during its premiere performance in 1920.  Even today, it sounds fresh and incredibly original.  It is so full of stylistic variety since each planet/movement captures a completely different mood, orchestrational technique, intensity, color, etc.  Those who listen through Holst's oeuvre in search of something similar will be surprised that nothing quite sounds like it with its perfect balance of drama, intensity, otherworldly magic, mythology, and creative lyricism. 

Final verdict.

[Mandryka]

. 
who do you think would be capable of conjuring something like this undying work for a new age?

You would need to find a composer who's interested in astrology. I can't think of one, Ferneyhough is interested in alchemy but I don't know if they overlap.

[Jo498]

Independent of the fact the the original Planets was influenced by astrology and character/mood associations, I think that a more recent "Planets" would reflect the (moderate) space exploration we have achieved and use at least some of the sounds and sonics we associate with alien/space/SciFi movies. Like mixing electronic music, Ligeti and John Williams or so.
(As I do not care much about the original, I doubt I would bother with a "remake"...)

alchemy and astrology used to overlap when those where still somewhat serious semi/protoscientific pursuits (roughly until 300 years ago), viz. the metal "mercury".

[amw]

You would need to find a composer who's interested in astrology.

I'll go canvas Tumblr immediately
<.<

[relm1]

You would need to find a composer who's interested in astrology. I can't think of one, Ferneyhough is interested in alchemy but I don't know if they overlap.

I don't think you need a composer interested in Astrology.  They only need to find inspiration from it.  For example, Holst said the character profiles is what he found creatively inspiring.  So that means mythology, literature, philosophy, etc., can serve as a similar source of inspiration and that is nearly any composer.  I guess I don't see why Stravisnky finding inspiration in ancient Greek archi-types and literary texts is any different from Holst finding inspiration in astrological texts or another writing in religious texts or Perseus etc.  No one needs to believe it, they just need to find inspiration in it.

[Maestro267]

I'd certainly love to see a composer try and do a movement for Earth, using Holst's vast forces.

[pjme]

Astrology is silly, of course, and pôtentially dangerous. However, many composers have been inspired by this pseudo science ( Le zodiac, horoscopes etc.) and wrote great music.Good!

Astronomy, on the contrary is a natural science . I found this list : https://www.astronomy2009.org/static/resources/iya2009_music_astronomy.pdf . Interesting!  Cosmogony, Music of the spheres, Quasars...

P.

[relm1]

Astrology is silly, of course, and pôtentially dangerous. However, many composers have been inspired by this pseudo science ( Le zodiac, horoscopes etc.) and wrote great music.Good!

Astronomy, on the contrary is a natural science . I found this list : https://www.astronomy2009.org/static/resources/iya2009_music_astronomy.pdf . Interesting!  Cosmogony, Music of the spheres, Quasars...

P.

There are many more works that can be added to that list.  I have a few pieces of my own that can be added.  It bores some people and inspires others.