breaking news: Army coup in Turkey ... failed, officers fled to Greece

[Scion7]

Ok, I made that part up - but there really is a coup in progress!   

The Dogan news agency published a statement from the military saying that it had" fully seized control" over the country. The statement said the coup was "to reinstall the constitutional order, democracy, human rights and freedoms, to ensure that the rule of law once again reigns in the country, for the law and order to be reinstated."

[Scion7]

Will the military mandate at least half of all evening radio programming to include Ahmed Adnan Saygun [1907-1991]?  Time will tell . . .

[The new erato]

Good thing the British has Boris Johnson to handle the delicate situation, then.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Oh dear.

    There was a young fellow from Ankara

    Who was a terrific wankerer

    Till he sowed his wild oats

    With the help of a goat

    But he didn't even stop to thankera.

[vandermolen]

Good thing the British has Boris Johnson to handle the delicate situation, then.

[vandermolen]

My friend in Ankara says a lot of confusing and contradictory information around. Jets are flying and occasional gunshots are heard.

[Scion7]

I'm surprised it took this long  -  the military has been uncomfortable with the religious nature of the government for some time.  They want to keep it much more secular and their positions entrenched.  Erdy may have to live in exile. 

[Todd]

As long as the Turkish military doesn't mess around with US nukes stored in Turkey - and I have no reason to believe they will - then no big fuss, other than stock market turmoil on Monday. 

If the military takes control, I'd advise IS leaders to sue for peace.  The Turks in the West.  The Iranians in the East.  Is Obama playing a proper Realist game?  Maybe.

[Ken B]

Oh dear.

    There was a young fellow from Ankara

    Who was a terrific wankerer

    Till he sowed his wild oats

    With the help of a goat

    But he didn't even stop to thankera.

60 dead. Weren't you scolding us on another thread about "thoughtful posts" about victims?

[Florestan]

I am surprised by two things.

1. That it took that long for a military coup against Erdogan to be staged.
2. That it was so ill judged, ill prepared and ill executed. The Turkish Army is probably the world´s leading expert in coups: they had never failed a single one until now (there were about 6 in the last 60 years). Looks more like a reckless improvisation of a few hotheads than a carefully planned and managed military operation. It´s obvious that only a tiny fraction of the army, and probably not the best and the brightest, was involved.

I fear that this misguided adventure will only reenforce Erdogan´s authoritarianism and dictatorial behaviour and he´ll have a strong pretext to wipe out any opposition once and for all.

[The new erato]

+1 to all of those observations.

[Scion7]

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/04/arts/classical-music-apolitical-not-in-turkey.html   

Still relevant.

[Scion7]

As long as the Turkish military doesn't mess around with US nukes stored in Turkey - and I have no reason to believe they will

The only nuclear weapons that have been deployed are the bombs that would be delivered by U.S. F-16s or Turkish F-100, F-104, and F-4 "Phantom" aircraft at air bases in Eskisehir, Malatya (Erhac), Ankara (Akinci/Murted), and Balikesir.[12] All such weapons, whether on U.S. or Turkish aircraft, have been under the custody of the U.S. Air Force.

[Brian]

I fear that this misguided adventure will only reenforce Erdogan´s authoritarianism and dictatorial behaviour and he´ll have a strong pretext to wipe out any opposition once and for all.

Yes, absolutely. Erdogan is already blaming the harmless Gulen religious group and the Guardian is reporting that the government has fired 2,745 judges, even though the coup was clearly not organized by judges.

[Florestan]

In complete fairness, though, I must confess I am acutely aware that criticizing Erdogan for authoritarian and even dictatorial behaviour is quite hypocritical --- because that´s exactly how Ataturk himself and many (if not most / all) of his succesors ruled.

Let´s face it: Mustafa Kemal was a military dictator in all but name (Napoleon immediately comes to mind, popularity included) and it is precisely he who envisioned, implemented and bequeathed the Turkish Army´s role as guardian angel of Turkey´s secularism, laicity and modernization (ie, Westernization).

Honestly, I doubt that Erdogan´s methods of dealing with the opposition differ greatly from those of Ataturk´s. I might even argue that Erdogan´s are actually milder and softer and smaller-scale-ish, because the international and internal context is very different today than it was in the 1920s-1930s.

I think this is a very clear case of Machiavellianism (one to which I subscribe unabashedly): as long as authoritarianism and (military) dictatorship are put to the service of laicity and modernization, they are palatable, even beneficial; when they serve Islamic / Ottomanist revival and traditionalism they are at least potentially dangerous and at worst directly threatening.

My previous post ended on a pessimistic note. But perhaps there is room to hope that Erdogan learned his lesson and that he might moderate his approach and try a conciliation with the opposition. After all, the parlamentarian opposition parties rallied behind him as the democratically elected leader of the republic (which he undoubtedly is). So the ball is on his side to seize a good opportunity to try reunite a country which is sharply divided and whose stability and frim engagement in the Western camp is essential.

And let´s be honest once again. when it comes to political and social Islamism I´d rather have it Turkey style evry night and day over Iran, Saudi Arabia or ISIS. For all his faults, Erdogan is a thousand times better than all the other bastards, not least because (1) he is the president of a NATO country, and (2) he will eventually be defeated in elections.

NB: I am far from being Erdogan´s fan and in another context I would have hearrtily applauded a carefully planned, managed and executed military coup against him. But we´re living in 2016. Realpolitik is more real than ever.

[Ken B]

In complete fairness, though, I must confess I am acutely aware that criticizing Erdogan for authoritarian and even dictatorial behaviour is quite hypocritical --- because that´s exactly how Ataturk himself and many (if not most / all) of his succesors ruled.

Let´s face it: Mustafa Kemal was a military dictator in all but name (Napoleon immediately comes to mind, popularity included) and it is precisely he who envisioned, implemented and bequeathed the Turkish Army´s role as guardian angel of Turkey´s secularism, laicity and modernization (ie, Westernization).

Honestly, I doubt that Erdogan´s methods of dealing with the opposition differ greatly from those of Ataturk´s. I might even argue that Erdogan´s are actually milder and softer and smaller-scale-ish, because the international and internal context is very different today than it was in the 1920s-1930s.

I think this is a very clear case of Machiavellianism (one to which I subscribe unabashedly): as long as authoritarianism and (military) dictatorship are put to the service of laicity and modernization, they are palatable, even beneficial; when they serve Islamic / Ottomanist revival and traditionalism they are at least potentially dangerous and at worst directly threatening.

My previous post ended on a pessimistic note. But perhaps there is room to hope that Erdogan learned his lesson and that he might moderate his approach and try a conciliation with the opposition. After all, the parlamentarian opposition parties rallied behind him as the democratically elected leader of the republic (which he undoubtedly is). So the ball is on his side to seize a good opportunity to try reunite a country which is sharply divided and whose stability and frim engagement in the Western camp is essential.

And let´s be honest once again. when it comes to political and social Islamism I´d rather have it Turkey style evry night and day over Iran, Saudi Arabia or ISIS. For all his faults, Erdogan is a thousand times better than all the other bastards, not least because (1) he is the president of a NATO country, and (2) he will eventually be defeated in elections.

NB: I am far from being Erdogan´s fan and in another context I would have hearrtily applauded a carefully planned, managed and executed military coup against him. But we´re living in 2016. Realpolitik is more real than ever.

Im not optimistic. For one thing, he is not really the constitutional leader. The PM is supposed to be, Erdogan has rather usurped power. So my guess is he will grab more. As Brian notes, he's already started. We will, but I am not hopeful.

Otherwise I agree. I had Ataturk as my avatar for a while btw.

[Todd]

[a]s long as authoritarianism and (military) dictatorship are put to the service of laicity and modernization, they are palatable, even beneficial; when they serve Islamic / Ottomanist revival and traditionalism they are at least potentially dangerous and at worst directly threatening...Realpolitik is more real than ever.

Yep and yep.  (I know, I know, I should clamor for democracy in that part of the world, and all that, but it has not exactly gone swimmingly so far.)

I wonder if this coup and backlash helps or hurts Turkey's entry into the EU?  (Actually, I don't.)

[Florestan]

Im not optimistic. For one thing, he is not really the constitutional leader. The PM is supposed to be, Erdogan has rather usurped power.

AFAIK, the Turkish Constitution has been ammended by referendum in order to expand presidentail powers. But I might be wrong.

So my guess is he will grab more. As Brian notes, he's already started.

The situation is still cloudy and heated. Let´s wait and see.

And now that I think of it, if he will really and recklessly upset the whole Army then he might really face a real, Made-in-Turkey TM coup. 

Be it as it may, prolonged chaos in Turkey is the last thing we need.

[Scion7]

Looks like it's all over.
Too bad.

[Florestan]

I wonder if this coup and backlash helps or hurts Turkey's entry into the EU?  (Actually, I don't.)

Turkey will never join the EU.