Dating or not dating.

[Mirror Image]

Yeah, that's it.

Just remember to keep breathing, nice and easy.

I will try, Nik.

[Brian]

Female love is primarily opportunistic. Yes, life is more fulfilling when there are people in it that genuinely care about you. Female romantic love however is opportunistic and prays upon that desire, and it can be withdrawn without guilt or shame when a better opportunity comes along. We men have a desperate need to be approved and accepted by a female we find sexually desirable, and this desire goes beyond a mere need for sex. However, women don't have that same pressing need to be accepted by men, though they need men's resources and commitment to carry out their biological imperative -- to become mothers. To women, we males are merely a tool to achieve that end, and the desperate male need for female companionship is the upper hand that women use to keep men in exploitative arrangements where the man is merely a mule who grudgingly gets tokens of affection and sex every once in a while on the condition that he keeps being a mule.

What the fuck?

[Brian]

Thanks, Joe, but later on this afternoon the detective inside of me came to fore. I'm naturally an inquisitive person, so here's what I began to think about: 1. she dated someone back in her country of Thailand for 10 years but broke up with him (as she claimed) once she came to the States, 2. she had a career as a computer programmer also back in her country but left that behind when came here, in which she also left her entire family behind, and 3. she's 34 years old and is over here studying English (and whatever else) and her mother is an English professor! I don't get this at all. What would be her true reasoning to be in the States studying? Why did she break up with her boyfriend after that long of a time together? Were they married? If yes, why did they divorce? There just seems to be a red flag somewhere and I'm going to find out. I need answers. She knows about me and my own life and I'm sure she has her own questions, but I don't see this thing going any further if she doesn't supply me with some logical answers. I'm not going to go into the date thinking negatively, because, right now, I have nothing to be negative about, but, like I mentioned, if her answer isn't good enough for me. I'm out the door.

I don't see any major problem here. You don't know if the 10-year relationship was a good one, and evidence is it probably wasn't - for one thing, he didn't come with her; for another, as Bob Odenkirk once memorably titled an essay, "Nine Years Is the Exact Right Amount of Time to Be in a Bad Relationship."

(EDIT: Also, it is not generally accepted to talk about past relationships early in a new one!)

And "why is she here studying English when she could talk to her mom" is not an issue either. After all, my mom was an English professor and I got a master's in English...in England.  ...and my mom came to the USA to study English, too, even though she had already read Anna Karenina in English in her Turkish high school. 

[NJ Joe]

John. Chill.

Talk to her. Don't make it an inquisition.

Exactly.

Remember:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAn7baRbhx4

[Ken B]

What the fuck?

I think you mean, What the masturbate?

[Mirror Image]

I don't see any major problem here. You don't know if the 10-year relationship was a good one, and evidence is it probably wasn't - for one thing, he didn't come with her; for another, as Bob Odenkirk once memorably titled an essay, "Nine Years Is the Exact Right Amount of Time to Be in a Bad Relationship."

(EDIT: Also, it is not generally accepted to talk about past relationships early in a new one!)

And "why is she here studying English when she could talk to her mom" is not an issue either. After all, my mom was an English professor and I got a master's in English...in England.  ...and my mom came to the USA to study English, too, even though she had already read Anna Karenina in English in her Turkish high school. 

Always the level-headed one. Thanks, Brian. You've made some good points, but I've always prided myself in open and honest communication with people and if I don't talk to her about this relationship, then, ultimately, it's not going to lead to any genuinely good feelings and will, over time, continue to weigh me down. I'm not the kind of person that lets things that are of a concern to me continue to pass over me. I'm going to be a gentleman, but I do need to know about this relationship, because that kind of time, especially back in her country, brings up a few questions I have. It may not be socially acceptable to talk about past relationships so early, but I haven't necessarily committed myself to her yet. Again, I believe I jumped the gun rather quickly in believing that I'm now in a relationship, but I need to just take a couple of steps back and examine what this could potentially mean for myself and my own future.

[mc ukrneal]

I personally don't have anything to lose except for the hope of creating a bond with her. I don't really think you've thought too much about this, Greg. It just doesn't make a lot of sense for someone to break up with a person she's been dating for 15 years and come to a country to study and leave behind a good paying job and her family. My fear is if things do become serious for us and her intentions aren't genuine, then at some point I'm left holding the bag, because, for me, the last stop in a serious relationship is marriage (if someone believes in that). Why would someone date someone for 15 years and not get married, especially since in her culture marriage is the norm? My fears are not without foundation as I believe people do things for certain reasons. My main question is why, after all of those years spent in Thailand with a good paying job and, from what she's told me, a good family, would someone leave that behind? Like I said, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt, but if she can't supply me with something that is logical and reasonable, I'll just chalk this whole thing up to experience and leave it at that.

Can I suggest you just slow down? You're worried she might not be marriage material and you've only been seeing her for like a week? It's fine to want answers and all that, but you don't want it to be a quiz (or inquisition as Ken said). These may be difficult for her discuss (or she may not yet have the English down to say it as she would like). And she may not be in a rush to tell you everything (or rather, she may have her own schedule - not yours). None of this is necessarily bad. I also understand your not wanting to get hurt - but that said, it is not realistic to find someone who doesn't have baggage or issues of their own (And that they wouldn't want to be forthcoming about all of that on a second (?) date).

On the 'mother is an English teacher in a foreign country thing', I've known English teachers in other countries who could not hold a normal conversation in English, in part because they had only learned from books and never travelled abroad. I've also know kids of parents that teach or speak a foreign language and not learned the language. I can say that of myself. My own mother spoke a language fluently and never spoke it to me (for various reasons, some typical of that generation), but that I became interested in learning when I got older (and considered moving to that country for a time to do so).

Another suggestion I'd make is to not to start trying to answer all these questions yourself. You are creating stories in your head, none of which are the answer exactly. Keep the questions in mind (and you will probably have many more, some about more mundane things, some about compatibility) and ask about them when the opportunity arises. But if you start worrying about the answers, you will a) get yourself in a tizzy (too late I fear) and b) start creating a 'truth' about her that has nothing to do with the real truth.

Anyway, just go have fun!

[Mirror Image]

Thanks a lot for your response, Neal. Like Brian, you have some excellent points. I suppose it doesn't help me that I can be quite neurotic all the time sometimes.

[Brian]

I agree with everything Neal said. There will come a time when you trust her deeply, or don't trust her deeply, and can talk about these things, or not talk about these things, and believe (or not) her replies. But right now your goal is just to get out of your own head and have a good time with another person. Having fun comes first, then something deeper, then both at the same time. Keep an open mind.

Remember not to make it about you. When my best friend started dating a guy, she could have thought, "He's 43 and hasn't dated anyone since high school. What's wrong with him?? He must have terrible secrets!" Instead she thought, "Everyone missed out and I got lucky." They're happily married now, and they're practically inseparable. But imagine what could have gone wrong if she'd started with a more "rational" attitude.

[NikF]

It's natural that in the course of getting to know someone things get discussed, including previous relationships. But when I meet a woman, the number and length and nature of her past relationships are really none of my business.

So, less of 'I sense a disturbance in The Force...' and more of going out and enjoying getting to know and having fun with your date. 

[Mirror Image]

I agree with everything Neal said. There will come a time when you trust her deeply, or don't trust her deeply, and can talk about these things, or not talk about these things, and believe (or not) her replies. But right now your goal is just to get out of your own head and have a good time with another person. Having fun comes first, then something deeper, then both at the same time. Keep an open mind.

Remember not to make it about you. When my best friend started dating a guy, she could have thought, "He's 43 and hasn't dated anyone since high school. What's wrong with him?? He must have terrible secrets!" Instead she thought, "Everyone missed out and I got lucky." They're happily married now, and they're practically inseparable. But imagine what could have gone wrong if she'd started with a more "rational" attitude.

It's natural that in the course of getting to know someone things get discussed, including previous relationships. But when I meet a woman, the number and length and nature of her past relationships are really none of my business.

So, less of 'I sense a disturbance in The Force...' and more of going out and enjoying getting to know and having fun with your date. 

You're both quite right. I should just loosen up a bit and have a good time in the accompaniment of a beautiful woman. What more could one ask for?

[NikF]

Well...now diverting the attention away from me: what's been going on with you guys? Anything new going on?

I initially didn't have a reply to this, but I do now. It's just a nice example of innocent flirting.

I'd gone to the box office of a venue to solve a problem with an online booking. I explained to the woman behind the counter who patiently listened and was all apologetic about it. And she was not unattractive, maybe early 40s and had a great smile.
After a few seconds tapping on her keyboard she told me it had been taken care of. I thanked her and commented that she had resolved it quickly and with such a friendly manner that it was a real pleasure to deal with her. She smiled again, but then quickly changed it to a look of exaggerated, almost incredulous surprise. She sat up straight and - I want to stress this was done in a non-erotic manner - she placed both her hands below her breasts and slowly smoothed down her shirt, showing how flat her stomach is while saying "And, can you believe I've an 18 year old daughter and a 20 year old son?!"
I bit my tongue in order to refrain from making the hardwired response "Oh yeah? Tell me more about the 18 year old daughter? "

That's the sort of fun and harmless exchange that can help make my day.

[vandermolen]

You're both quite right. I should just loosen up a bit and have a good time in the accompaniment of a beautiful woman. What more could one ask for?

I wouldn't waste time by dwelling on what you 'should' do. I think the point made earlier about open and honest communication is a good one. Things will become clearer over time anyway.

[greg]

Somebody dumped you, eh?

That's the impression I got, too. 

You're both quite right. I should just loosen up a bit and have a good time in the accompaniment of a beautiful woman. What more could one ask for?

There you go! Now just stop at that and everything will likely go well.

[Mirror Image]

I wouldn't waste time by dwelling on what you 'should' do. I think the point made earlier about open and honest communication is a good one. Things will become clearer over time anyway.

Indeed, Jeffrey.

There you go! Now just stop at that and everything will likely go well.

I will certainly try!

[NikF]

Last night I'd a date with the woman I'd previously gone to the Ravel/Bavouzet concert with. One of the agencies I've worked with had their Xmas party and as usual sent me tickets and so we went and visited the land of the six foot plus beautiful people. I had a chat with a few of them and then got cornered by a drunk MUA. Eventually my date offered to take me back to her place and read my tarot for fun. I've never heard it called that before.

[Mirror Image]

Last night I'd a date with the woman I'd previously gone to the Ravel/Bavouzet concert with. One of the agencies I've worked with had their Xmas party and as usual sent me tickets and so we went and visited the land of the six foot plus beautiful people. I had a chat with a few of them and then got cornered by a drunk MUA. Eventually my date offered to take me back to her place and read my tarot for fun. I've never heard it called that before.

Yep, you're one smooth, cool cat. Btw, MUA? What does this mean? Are you going to go on another with that woman?

[NikF]

Yep, you're one smooth, cool cat. Btw, MUA? What does this mean? Are you going to go on another with that woman?

Yes, I think I'll see her again. But not soon, because this year I'm planning to avoid Xmas as much as possible by going away for a little while. 
When are you and your date going to see Star Wars? Is it today?

e: MUA = makeup artist.

[greg]

read my tarot for fun. I've never heard it called that before.

"Tarot and chill"

[Mirror Image]

Yes, I think I'll see her again. But not soon, because this year I'm planning to avoid Xmas as much as possible by going away for a little while. 
When are you and your date going to see Star Wars? Is it today?

e: MUA = makeup artist.

We'll be going to see Star Wars tomorrow. I hear you about the Christmas thing. I'd like to avoid it, too, but, unfortunately, I work retail and the Holiday Season brings nothing but chaos and a bitter taste in my mouth. Thankfully, Christmas is on Sunday as I'm off from Hell on Sundays and Mondays.