"Sibelius, the Worst Composer in the World"

[Karl Henning]

It's not as if we have a shortage of recordings to choose from when it comes to the larger Sibelius orchestral works.

And even in Sibelius's day, he was much better known internationally than (say) Nielsen, of whose music Leibowitz and Adorno would only have been yet more harshly dismissive.

[Karl Henning]

One has to take this into account because while the main issue for Adorno and Leibowitz was their frustration because of the lack of success of 20th century avantgarde they seem to have been genuinely puzzled at Sibelius's success in some musical cultures whereas it was fairly limited in France and Germany.

Speaking of projection, yes, indeed:  it was pretty much just the frustration talking, wasn't it?  Cannot be any problem with our work or our message;  the problem is with "the worst composer in the world," and all the "philistines" who prefer his music to ours.

[Karl Henning]

It's interesting that some Americans on the forum have very recently expressed their frustration that American music is rarely considered elsewhere.

Call this an observation rather than frustration;  and it no doubt says as much about art music culture in the US as elsewhere.  But there are reasons (whatever those reasons may turn out to be) that the Boston Symphony and New York Philharmonic program pieces by living Finnish composers; while, if the Helsinki Phil has programmed any music by living Americans, I have permitted myself to remain in ignorance of that fact 

[Cato]

As I read your perceptive answer, I do think you may underscore Cato's speculative point that the subtlety of Sibelius's achievement eluded them, for your very reasons.

I was about to remark upon the same thing! 

Many thanks to all for the additional comments!  On a tangential point, the Wall Street Journal today carried a review of a collection of music criticism by Virgil Thomson, who was quite blinkered by a bias that a deleterious and even "toxic" "Germanic influence" on American composers (e.g. Charles Ives and George Chadwick) prevented them from greater achievements.

See:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-life-in-american-music-1471639326

And:

According to my mentors in academia at the time, Sibelius, who died in 1957 at age 91, was a pathetic figure who never responded properly to the forward march of music history as led by Stravinsky and Schoenberg into the twentieth century. Beyond that, his childish obsession with Finnish folklore and nature mysticism made him out to be a hopelessly outdated proponent of musical nationalism or, worse, a cynical audience manipulator. From his bully pulpit at the New York Herald Tribune, Virgil Thomson branded Sibelius's music vulgar, self-indulgent, and provincial beyond description, and Thomson's successor, Paul Henry Lang, was just as damning. Both critics probably felt they had to use strong language since Sibelius was still dangerously popular -- back in 1935, in fact, New York concertgoers had selected him as their favorite composer, nosing out even Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, and Mozart.

See:

http://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/music/classical/reviews/1960/

Speaking of projection, yes, indeed:  it was pretty much just the frustration talking, wasn't it?  Cannot be any problem with our work or our message;  the problem is with "the worst composer in the world," and all the "philistines" who prefer his music to ours.

True, and typical of the attitudes of elitist quasi-totalitarians.

[king ubu]

Regarding german(ic) conductors, Horst Stein has also done a substantial amount of Sibelius - and fine recordings, too (as far as I'm able to tell ... I started digging into Sibelius last year but haven't proceeded much since then).

I have reworked Brian's translation and have contacted him privately, don't feel comfortable putting it up here before hearing from him. There were some syntax errors mainly ... and that funny bit about "inoffensive sample of salon music" - in the original ever so elegant "cet inoffensif échantillon de la musique de salon" - is actually Leibowitz' description of "Valse triste", and come on, that has to make you chuckle a bit, at least, right?

[Karl Henning]

It is not truly coincidence, as I turned to the book with renewed interest as a result of this discussion, but last night I read the following:

Sibelius is a strongly tonal composer with roots in late romanticism, who nevertheless is a genuine twentieth century phenomenon.  Everything moves in cycles, and even the serialist's world has roots in the past;  but nothing comes round again in the same way as before.  Consider a few passages that express a new view of musical language [...]

There follow three examples: four mm. from En Saga; four mm. from the first movement of the Fourth Symphony;  and seven mm. from the first movement of the Sixth Symphony.

None of these extracts is foreseeable from the music of the nineteenth century as a whole;  and yet each grows from the past.  It is not the dissonance which is remarkable in [the En Saga excerpt] [...] what is remarkable about it is that it is a new treatment of a foundational element of musical speech and that this possibility was latent in tonal music from the beginning;  but no one found it until Sibelius did.  Once found, it enlarges the whole musical horizon.

If we pass on to [the excerpts from the Symphonies], we have two more facts of immense importance.  The first is again an enlargement of normal speech, this time arrived at, as often with this composer, by excision.  One chord grows into another in a way that enlarges our vision and, incidentally, teaches us a good deal about earlier forms of speech, by omitting connecting chords that earlier composers would certainly have used.  By thus bringing together the two extremes Sibelius has taught us more than we knew before about what he is leaving out.  He is simply seeing the new in the old, and he points forward as well as back.

This is from a collection of essays edited by composer Robert Simpson, a two-volume Pelican history of The Symphony first published in 1967.

[Cato]

It is not truly coincidence, as I turned to the book with renewed interest as a result of this discussion, but last night I read the following:

There follow three examples: four mm. from En Saga; four mm. from the first movement of the Fourth Symphony;  and seven mm. from the first movement of the Sixth Symphony.


This is from a collection of essays edited by composer Robert Simpson, a two-volume Pelican history of The Symphony first published in 1967.

An excellent case in how to argue - or even prove - one's assertions by using the scores themselves!

[Spineur]

Another handful of dirt on Leibowitz's rep., Grove sez: "Leibowitz's claims of having met Schoenberg and studied with Webern in the early 1930s remain unsubstantiated  - it appears that his knowledge of their music was acquired primarily through intensive study of their scores..."

I can tell you that his book "Schoenberg and his school" is excellent: I read it several times.
It isnt because he went loose on Sibelius, that all his work should be trashed.
Anyway, there are way too many negative threads on this forum.
You should all think positively about classical music.

[Cato]

I can tell you that his book "Schoenberg and his school" is excellent: I read it several times.
It isnt because he went loose on Sibelius, that all his work should be trashed.
Anyway, there are way too many negative threads on this forum.
You should all think positively about classical music.

By examining something negative, and finding it wanting, I believe we are thinking quite "positively about classical music." 

[Madiel]

You should all think positively about classical music.

I think it's safe to say that in this case, no-one on the forum started the negativity.

[Karl Henning]

I can tell you that his book "Schoenberg and his school" is excellent: I read it several times.
It isnt because he went loose on Sibelius, that all his work should be trashed.
Anyway, there are way too many negative threads on this forum.
You should all think positively about classical music.

I do recall finding that of interest, though it's a while since I've read it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Mister Sharpe]

I can tell you that his book "Schoenberg and his school" is excellent: I read it several times.
It isnt because he went loose on Sibelius, that all his work should be trashed.
Anyway, there are way too many negative threads on this forum.
You should all think positively about classical music.

Spineur, your comment brings to mind an old French saying, dripping with irony:  "C'est un animal sauvage*, quand on** l'attaque, il se défend."

* - Sibelius & fans
** Leibowitz

[North Star]

un animal sauvage

Oh yes, that's what I think of when I hear Sibelius  0:)

[Karl Henning]

You don't want to be near the Swan of Tuonela when she's nesting!

[Mister Sharpe]

You don't want to be near the Swan of Tuonela when she's nesting!

Nor Sibelius fans attesting!

[Uhor]

"Leibowitz", she said, "What did Adorno tell you this morning?"

[Monsieur Croche]

Call this an observation rather than frustration;  and it no doubt says as much about art music culture in the US as elsewhere.  But there are reasons (whatever those reasons may turn out to be) that the Boston Symphony and New York Philharmonic program pieces by living Finnish composers; while, if the Helsinki Phil has programmed any music by living Americans, I have permitted myself to remain in ignorance of that fact 

May be the Finns' music comes cheaper? 

[North Star]

Call this an observation rather than frustration;  and it no doubt says as much about art music culture in the US as elsewhere.  But there are reasons (whatever those reasons may turn out to be) that the Boston Symphony and New York Philharmonic program pieces by living Finnish composers; while, if the Helsinki Phil has programmed any music by living Americans, I have permitted myself to remain in ignorance of that fact 

Well, the Finnish RSO is performing the premiere of American composer Tyondai Braxton's work TELEKINESIS on the first of February 2017. 
During the 14-15 season, they performed Cindy McTee's Circuits. The FRSO Chamber Ensemble also played Christopher Rouse's Ku-Ka Ilimoku. In Season 13-14, they played Adams' Harmonielehre and Lollapallooza, Lera Auerbach's Icarus, Kerry Turner's Ricochet, and John Harbison's Twilight Music.

[Karl Henning]

You see?  Ignorance (and laziness, in letting you do the research) on my part.    (And I might have guessed Adams, to be sure.)

[Monsieur Croche]

"Leibowitz", she said, "What did Adorno tell you this morning?"

Adorno actually said (and this is verbatim),
"René, mein Freund.  Be double certain to take your meds, because you know how you get when you don't take them."