Bob Dylan Wins Nobel Prize for Literature!

[Florestan]

Fair enough, although writing 'genuine books' as a requirement is a bit odd. Published in several languages is something I would appreciate in a laureate, certainly, but I don't see how 'books' (basically novels) are inherently better than novellas, short stories, poetry, or journalism.

I don´t agree that books equals novels. There are plenty of books made up of novellas, short stories and poetry --- and essays, which is also a genuine literary genre, and a difficult one at that. You mentioned Yeats earlier: he deservedly received his Nobel prize for his poems which appeared in dedicated volumes, ie books.

As for journalism, there is a dedicated prize.

[North Star]

I don´t agree that books equals novels. There are plenty of books made up of novellas, short stories and poetry --- and essays, which is also a genuine literary genre, and a difficult one at that. You mentioned Yeats earlier: he deservedly received his Nobel prize for his poems which appeared in dedicated volumes, ie books.

Sure, essays, and drama, and all sorts of other genres of literature. I hesitate to point out that Dylan's ouevre appears in dedicated volumes, too.  0:)

As for journalism, there is a dedicated prize.

Oh, which prize do you mean?

[San Antone]

A Book!

[asin]1451648766[/asin]

[Gurn Blanston]

I prefer non-fiction. Some of the best non-fiction I have read is easily equal to the best novels, shouldn't it be literature? They are 'genuine books' after all... 

[North Star]

I prefer non-fiction. Some of the best non-fiction I have read is easily equal to the best novels, shouldn't it be literature? They are 'genuine books' after all... 

Absolutely.

[Parsifal]

I prefer non-fiction. Some of the best non-fiction I have read is easily equal to the best novels, shouldn't it be literature? They are 'genuine books' after all... 

I take literature to be a verbal work of the imagination, which would allow fiction, poetry and maybe song lyrics. Dylan is one of the few songwriters whose lyrics strike me as "literary." Non fiction seems something else to me.

But of course the Nobel committee is responsible only to itself and is free to decide for itself what it considers "literature." I find it surprising that people get so bent out of shape over what is "worthy" of Nobel prize consideration.

[North Star]

I take literature to be a verbal work of the imagination, which would allow fiction, poetry and maybe song lyrics. Dylan is one of the few songwriters whose lyrics strike me as "literary." Non fiction seems something else to me.

Well, Nobel didn't specify that the award should be for a work of fiction, and the word literature refers to both fiction and nonfiction. And what do you make of e.g. Borges' works, when he published essays, short stories, literary criticism, poetry, and short prose together?

[Gurn Blanston]

I take literature to be a verbal work of the imagination, which would allow fiction, poetry and maybe song lyrics. Dylan is one of the few songwriters whose lyrics strike me as "literary." Non fiction seems something else to me.

But of course the Nobel committee is responsible only to itself and is free to decide for itself what it considers "literature." I find it surprising that people get so bent out of shape over what is "worthy" of Nobel prize consideration.

There is that, which is where my prejudice led me. But then there is this:

Well, Nobel didn't specify that the award should be for a work of fiction, and the word literature refers to both fiction and nonfiction. And what do you make of e.g. Borges' works, when he published essays, short stories, literary criticism, poetry, and short prose together?

Which changes the equation altogether. I wasn't being facetious, I just thought as you do. BUt if the prize was intended to be more all-encompassing, then by god, it should encompass more.

[North Star]

There is that, which is where my prejudice led me. But then there is this:

Which changes the equation altogether. I wasn't being facetious, I just thought as you do. BUt if the prize was intended to be more all-encompassing, then by god, it should encompass more.

Indeed. Winston Spencer Churchill got it for his history of the Second World War, and for his speeches during the war.

[Parsifal]

Indeed. Winston Spencer Churchill got it for his history of the Second World War, and for his speeches during the war.

Both of which are categorized by some as fiction. 

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

If they wanted to award a songwriter, I think Leonard Cohen might have been a better choice. He was actually a poet and novelist before he even ventured into music. (Note: I haven't read his literary works, and have no idea how good they are.) But I doubt they would give it to another Canadian so soon after Alice Munro.

The next step will be to give it to a film director. But almost all the great film directors are dead. Which means they might have to look to TV, so I would not be surprised if something like this happened:

I wonder if David Simon will win the prize for The Wire and Treme.

[North Star]

Both of which are categorized by some as fiction. 

I'm sure that is why he qualified

[Parsifal]

Which changes the equation altogether. I wasn't being facetious, I just thought as you do. BUt if the prize was intended to be more all-encompassing, then by god, it should encompass more.

I'm not bothered by Dylan getting the prize, but the most cogent argument against it was something that was mentioned in a NY Times opinion piece. Basically, the Nobel for literature is an opportunity to bring an author to the world's attention. Is there anyone on God's green earth that hasn't already heard of Bob Dylan?

[Ken B]

Absolutely.

Good thing Churchill wrote so many novels then.

[North Star]

Good thing Churchill wrote so many novels then.

Just the one; Savrola.

I'm not bothered by Dylan getting the prize, but the most cogent argument against it was something that was mentioned in a NY Times opinion piece. Basically, the Nobel for literature is an opportunity to bring an author to the world's attention. Is there anyone on God's green earth that hasn't already heard of Bob Dylan?

Yes, that was my reaction as well.

[Gurn Blanston]

I'm not bothered by Dylan getting the prize, but the most cogent argument against it was something that was mentioned in a NY Times opinion piece. Basically, the Nobel for literature is an opportunity to bring an author to the world's attention. Is there anyone on God's green earth that hasn't already heard of Bob Dylan?

I would be stunned by that question if not, just last night, a poster here whom I have known for many years piped in that he had never heard a single Dylan song, even though he grew up in the Bronx, NYC. So yes, there actually is someone who needs to at least hear Positively 4th Street before making the call.   

[Ken B]

I'm not bothered by Dylan getting the prize, but the most cogent argument against it was something that was mentioned in a NY Times opinion piece. Basically, the Nobel for literature is an opportunity to bring an author to the world's attention. Is there anyone on God's green earth that hasn't already heard of Bob Dylan?

Exactly. It was originally an aspirational prize, to encourage literature where it might not otherwise thrive. The incentive aspect was important. Obscure Greek poets, brave novelists in Turkey, Romanian playwrights who aren't serial killers. Does anyone really need more incentive to become a rock star?

[SimonNZ]

Personally I think its telling that his one collection of actual poetry, Tarantulla, is probably the most poorly recieved things he's done, both critically and in sales. And that his"poetical"  free-associating liner notes for himself and others are justly felt to little more than wannabe Kerouac. The disparate episodes in the "memoirs" are a fascinating short read, but you'd never compare the prose or self-analysis in those to Proust.

Like I said, I'm a huge Dylan fan, but it made more sense when he got a special Pulitzer Music award in 2008 for lifetime achievement.

It's also been a little saddening to me reading comments about this all over the internet that almost all of the examples people choose to cite from his lyrics are taken only from a handful of early albums, and not from the so many great later works. In fact, if this is going to be based just on his sixties work and bits of the early seventies then it might have made more sense to give him the Peace prize.

[Ken B]

I would be stunned by that question if not, just last night, a poster here whom I have known for many years piped in that he had never heard a single Dylan song, even though he grew up in the Bronx, NYC. So yes, there actually is someone who needs to at least hear Positively 4th Street before making the call.   

If he has to hear it, not read it, QED.

[San Antone]

Exactly. It was originally an aspirational prize, to encourage literature where it might not otherwise thrive. The incentive aspect was important. Obscure Greek poets, brave novelists in Turkey, Romanian playwrights who aren't serial killers. Does anyone really need more incentive to become a rock star?

Huh?

Among the five prizes provided for in Alfred Nobel's will (1895), one was intended for the person who, in the literary field, had produced "the most outstanding work in an ideal direction". The Laureate should be determined by "the Academy in Stockholm", which was specified by the statutes of the Nobel Foundation to mean the Swedish Academy. These statutes defined literature as "not only belles-lettres, but also other writings which, by virtue of their form and style, possess literary value". At the same time, the restriction to works presented "during the preceding year" was softened: "older works" could be considered "if their significance has not become apparent until recently". It was also stated that candidates must be nominated in writing by those entitled to do so before 1 February each year.