Davis vs Karajan Mozart

[Kontrapunctus]

For those of you who have heard both sets, which one has the best sound? (I have the Karajan, but there's always something better!)  Alternatively, is there another more recent set that is better recorded and played that is not HIP? I want big orchestras!

[Turner]

A side remark - but have a look at Karajan´s Mozart symphonies on EMI. I personally prefer those by far to his DG ones.

[Parsifal]

I've not heard the Davis, but I agree that the EMI Karajan has better sound than the DG Karajan. I never liked the sound on the DG Karajan set because the winds do not get due prominence.

I recently stumbled across some recordings of these work by Dohnanyi/Cleveland on Decca. Those I am curious to hear. It seems that big-band recordings of Mozart are rare these days. Another alternative is the Kripps Concertgebouw set of Philips (now Decca).

https://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-35-41-MOZART-WOLFGANG-AMADEUS/dp/B00000E54L/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477940567&sr=8-1&keywords=mozart+dohnanyi

[MishaK]

Another alternative is the Kripps Concertgebouw set of Philips (now Decca).

I found Krips (one 'p') disappointing, mainly due to overly broad tempi.

Other big band, non-HIP suggestions: Böhm/BPO (a frequently recommended classic with good reason), Barenboim/ECO(EMI) and Abbado/BPO(Sony).

[Kontrapunctus]

I've not heard the Davis, but I agree that the EMI Karajan has better sound than the DG Karajan. I never liked the sound on the DG Karajan set because the winds do not get due prominence.

I recently stumbled across some recordings of these work by Dohnanyi/Cleveland on Decca. Those I am curious to hear. It seems that big-band recordings of Mozart are rare these days. Another alternative is the Kripps Concertgebouw set of Philips (now Decca).

https://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-35-41-MOZART-WOLFGANG-AMADEUS/dp/B00000E54L/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477940567&sr=8-1&keywords=mozart+dohnanyi

Thanks. It gets generally good reviews:
http://www.classical-music.com/review/mozartwebern
http://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/mozartwebern-orchestral-works  (One has to be a member, but taking screen shots and piecing them together worked for me--had to do it 3 times to capture the full review!)

[Kontrapunctus]

I found Krips (one 'p') disappointing, mainly due to overly broad tempi.

Other big band, non-HIP suggestions: Böhm/BPO (a frequently recommended classic with good reason), Barenboim/ECO(EMI) and Abbado/BPO(Sony).

I have the Bohm. It's good, but the 50+ year old sound is showing its age.

[Parsifal]

I have the Bohm. It's good, but the 50+ year old sound is showing its age.

Only the WPO seems to have a license to record non-HIP Mozart. There are the Levine and Bernstein recordings on DGG. I have heard the Bernstein recordings and didn't like them too much.

There are also the Harnoncourt, Concertgebouw recordings, which are my all-time favorites. They are modern instrument but sort of fall into the HIP category, in the Harnoncourt manner.

I found Krips (one 'p') disappointing, mainly due to overly broad tempi.

Granted, they are my "slow set" when I am in the mood for that sort of thing. But I find them splendid in their way.

This thread is very bad for me, now I'm itching to hear those Dohnanyi recordings.

[Que]

The only respectable Old school Mozart I've heard is by Georg Szell, Bruno Walter and Josef Krips...

Neither Böhm nor Karajan cut it IMO.

And then there are the Concertgebouw Orchestra recordings by Nicolaus Harnoncourt....an obvious first choice if you want a big symphony orchestra..

Q

[Turner]

Another vote for checking out Harnoncourt/CtGebouw.

[Jo498]

I agree that the better big band Mozart recordings tend to be >50 years old, some of Klemperer's, Szell's, early Maag (although his 1990s italian recordings are not without interest), Markevitch, E. Kleiber, Schuricht, Walter...
the Boehm/Berlin set is IMO one of the most overrated "classics of the gramophone", probably because of the fact that it was the only game in town in decent sound from a major label for many years.

Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw is fascinating and often unique (among my favorites for 25, 26, 31-36, 38, 39 and 40) and it certainly does sound like a big band (more obviously so in the earlier piece that are given a thoroughly serious treatment). But he is often quite unconventional, lacking in elegance and gracefulness and the sound is not always so great (early 1980s digital).

[marvinbrown]

For those of you who have heard both sets, which one has the best sound? (I have the Karajan, but there's always something better!)  Alternatively, is there another more recent set that is better recorded and played that is not HIP? I want big orchestras!

  My favorite set of Mozart symphonies is the Sir Neville Marriner with the Academy of St Martin in the fields. Big Orchestral lush sound.......wonderfull!

[Ken B]

Interesting reactions.
I never found Karajan quite right in Mozart. I did like Boehm a lot when younger, but am so attuned to HIP now I find it very hard to judge. I think a normal human being encountering Mozart for the first time seriously might prefer modern orchestras and modern sound. So of the two listed, Davis. There's a real integrity to Walter and Szell but the sound is dated. If I were to recommend just one, to a normal human being, it would be Abbado.

[Spineur]

  My favorite set of Mozart symphonies is the Sir Neville Marriner with the Academy of St Martin in the fields. Big Orchestral lush sound.......wonderfull!

+1.  Paired with Brendel in the concertos, it is pure bliss.

[Heck148]

is there another more recent set that is better recorded and played that is not HIP? I want big orchestras!

For great late Mozart Symphonies - modern instruments, non HIP -
Reiner, Walter, Szell can't be beat...
Davis is good  his "Don Giovanni" is excellent...

Walter's approach is definitely Romantic - but so beautiful, leans into the phrases...Szell, crackling precision, terrific playing, a bit "straight", but really excellent
Reiner combines best of both - precision, lots of energy, gorgeous phrasing

[mc ukrneal]

I have the Davis and have thoroughly enjoyed it. I agree partially with heck - his Don Giovanni is outstanding!

[Dancing Divertimentian]

For those of you who have heard both sets, which one has the best sound? (I have the Karajan, but there's always something better!)  Alternatively, is there another more recent set that is better recorded and played that is not HIP? I want big orchestras!

I used to have a couple of discs from this set and yes the sound is great, the orchestra is big (and sounds it), and not a whiff of HIP!

Ultimately, even though the performances were extremely well done (kinda goes without saying), I couldn't get along with the broad tempi favored by Davis. And I tried very hard to adjust my ears.

This of course may have no bearing at all on what YOU think of the performances, especially based on your criteria. They could very well be right up your alley!!

[Dancing Divertimentian]

This thread is very bad for me, now I'm itching to hear those Dohnanyi recordings.

Yeah, I have Dohnanyi's 39 & 40 and they are my go-to for these two symphonies. Perfectly judged tempos, great sense of structure, good inner life, not too bloated, etc, etc, etc...

[kishnevi]

Karajan is sui generis in Mozart.  He does it all wrong, but the result justifies the wrongness.  But he should be an alternative, not a primary choice.

Have you checked into Mackerras's complete set on Teldec?

[Jay F]

Karajan is sui generis in Mozart.  He does it all wrong, but the result justifies the wrongness.  But he should be an alternative, not a primary choice.

Have you checked into Mackerras's complete set on Teldec?

Do you mean Telarc?

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[Parsifal]

Do you mean Telarc?

[asin]B001FWRYVA[/asin]

I like that set a lot, but with harpsichord accompaniment, I don't think it will satisfy the OP's desire for non-HIP.