Six favourite last symphonies.

[Mahlerian]

Question: Mahler had orchestrated the first movement and most of the 2nd, however did complete the short score of the 10th in its entirety. I take this that the symphony was musically complete, similar to the final act of Berg's Lulu, just not orchestrated, correct?

I admit I haven't read much about the work, but do love my 2 recordings of it.

Yes.  The short score is a complete draft.  Mahler never began orchestration until after he had drafted a work in full, and after that point the structure of the work would never change (assuming that he followed his usual practice here).  He also began on the full score of the third movement and left indications of instrumentation in the other two.  In addition to orchestration, there are a few (but only a few!) details of counterpoint and harmony that have not been filled in, but the Cooke score is very light on additions of any kind, and it is the most widely accepted performing version of the work.  Versions like Carpenter's that are more interventionist strike me as much less true to Mahler's style.

The whole short score is available online, so anyone can look at it for themselves:
Mahler: Symphony No. 10

[TheGSMoeller]

Yes.  The short score is a complete draft.  Mahler never began orchestration until after he had drafted a work in full, and after that point the structure of the work would never change (assuming that he followed his usual practice here).  He also began on the full score of the third movement and left indications of instrumentation in the other two.  In addition to orchestration, there are a few (but only a few!) details of counterpoint and harmony that have not been filled in, but the Cooke score is very light on additions of any kind, and it is the most widely accepted performing version of the work.  Versions like Carpenter's that are more interventionist strike me as much less true to Mahler's style.

The whole short score is available online, so anyone can look at it for themselves:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.10_(Mahler,_Gustav)

Thanks for the info, mahlerian. Listening to the final mvt now while reading along with the short score. Fascinating. I download scores all the time but never knew the short score for the 10th was available.

[JRJoseph]

Some so-called composers have tried to finish Schubert which is a real disaster.  Schubert actually started a third movement, did not like it himself and thank God left it unfinished.  Some people do not seem to know when they are well off in music sometimes.  As far as Mahler's Tenth, I think there was enough of a full symphony left so it was worth a try and a listen.  As usual. everybody has the right to disagree.  This makes life and music more interesting.

[TheGSMoeller]

Some so-called composers have tried to finish Schubert which is a real disaster.  Schubert actually started a third movement, did not like it himself and thank God left it unfinished.  Some people do not seem to know when they are well off in music sometimes.  As far as Mahler's Tenth, I think there was enough of a full symphony left so it was worth a try and a listen.  As usual. everybody has the right to disagree.  This makes life and music more interesting.

Debating is healthy. 

I for one cannot get into a finale for Bruckner's 9th. Not saying whether I consider it "completed", but I just have a difficult time audibly accepting it. I guess it's been so long that I've been used to the beautiful Adagio closing the piece.

[Jo498]

Some so-called composers have tried to finish Schubert which is a real disaster.  Schubert actually started a third movement, did not like it himself and thank God left it unfinished.

The best known finishing attempt by Newbould involves not much composing. It is the completion and instrumentation of the Scherzo of which Schubert had sketched the main part. As finale is taken the Entracte from Rosamunde which is complete and pure Schubert. So except for the completion of the trio and the instrumentation of the scherzo there is very little in the b minor completion that is not basically by Schubert. And it seems a little unfair to claim that the instrumentation and the trio are so disastrous that the ruin the whole piece.

[JRJoseph]

Most people seem to agree (which means nothing to people who disagree) that Rosamunde does not belong in the Unfinished which is a very dramatic and completely different work from anything Schubert had ever written.  If this opinion is unfair, so be it.

[André]

Debating is healthy. 

I for one cannot get into a finale for Bruckner's 9th. Not saying whether I consider it "completed", but I just have a difficult time audibly accepting it. I guess it's been so long that I've been used to the beautiful Adagio closing the piece.

That's one of the reasons (having been exposed to the 3 movement structure for so long); the other one is that by the time Bruckner got to work on that finale, his own musical language had changed perceptibly. It looks (sounds) like he couldn't connect the dots in terms of linking that movement to the other ones. And that is certainly audible. It's like being familiar with someone's face and meeting him/her after some plastic surgery.

[jochanaan]

Well, we accept the pastiche that is the completed Mozart Requiem (KV626)...

[Christo]

Tchaikovsky: Symphonie Pathetique
Nielsen: Sinfonia semplice 
Honegger: Symphony No. 5 'Di tre re'
Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 9
Shostakovich: Symphony No. 15
Holmboe: Symphony No. 13

[vandermolen]

Tchaikovsky: Symphonie Pathetique
Nielsen: Sinfonia semplice 
Honegger: Symphony No. 5 'Di tre re'
Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 9
Shostakovich: Symphony No. 15
Holmboe: Symphony No. 13

Very much agree with these although I know the Holmboe less well than the others.

Following some of the suggestions here is my new list, which is probably more or less the same as my old list. 

Franz Schmidt: Symphony 4
VW: Symphony 9
Gliere: Symphony 3
Honegger: Symphony 5
Arnold: Symphony 9
Miaskovsky: Symphony 27

[Christo]

Very much agree with these although I know the Holmboe less well than the others.

Following some of the suggestions here is my new list, which is probably more or less the same as my old list. 

Franz Schmidt: Symphony 4
VW: Symphony 9
Gliere: Symphony 3
Honegger: Symphony 5
Arnold: Symphony 9
Miaskovsky: Symphony 27

Could have been my list, too. Without any exception. :-)

[schnittkease]

I'm a bit late to this party but I'll give it a shot regardless.

Schnittke #8
Schmitt #2
Mozart #41
Vaughan Williams #9
Shostakovich #15
Myaskovsky #27
S̶e̶g̶e̶r̶s̶t̶a̶m̶ ̶#̶3̶0̶9̶

[bwv 1080]

I'm a bit late to this party but I'll give it a shot regardless.

Schnittke #8
Schmitt #2
Mozart #41
Vaughan Williams #9
Shostakovich #15
Myaskovsky #27
S̶e̶g̶e̶r̶s̶t̶a̶m̶ ̶#̶3̶0̶9̶

You don't think Schnittke's 9th is legit?  I know it was finished by another composer, but like it quite a bit

[bwv 1080]

Mozart 41
LvB 9
Schubert 9
Schumann 4
Brahms 4
Mahler 9 (or 10 if you want to count it)
Lutoslawski 4

[schnittkease]

You don't think Schnittke's 9th is legit?

Nope!

[Christo]

S̶e̶g̶e̶r̶s̶t̶a̶m̶ ̶#̶3̶0̶9̶

Finished looooong ago, in 2016; this Summer vacation no doubt inspired another dozen.

[vandermolen]

Could have been my list, too. Without any exception. :-)

[vandermolen]

I'm a bit late to this party but I'll give it a shot regardless.

Schnittke #8
Schmitt #2
Mozart #41
Vaughan Williams #9
Shostakovich #15
Myaskovsky #27
S̶e̶g̶e̶r̶s̶t̶a̶m̶ ̶#̶3̶0̶9̶

Nice to see another vote for NM. 

[Maestro267]

Shostakovich 15
Tchaikovsky 6
Lloyd 12
Vaughan Williams 9
Arnold 9
Dvorak 9

[Christo]

Shostakovich 15
Tchaikovsky 6
Lloyd 12
Vaughan Williams 9
Arnold 9
Dvorak 9

All absolute personal favourites, except for the Lloyd - that I don't even now. Was it my mistake not to play him after a superficial encounter about fourty years ago, already an admirer of RVW, when I found Lloyd an outdated Romantic and didn't bother to hear more? Please tell me how wrong I've been.